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i am SO TIRED of seeing WOMEN held up as examples in the pillory
as though MEN have had nothing to do with it.
what this woman apparently did was wrong,
but worse WRONG are all these men who play deaf and dumb and stupid when the baby comes!!!!
I just can't believe she put in a 'not guilty' statement. She already admitted to it, what, is she trying to back peddle now? I hope our courts and law punish her to the highest extent! That woman is a monster!
why is there only one voice on this comment line who dares to bring up the subject of the "men" and their responsibility?
maybe "she couldn't take it anymore" and fritzed right out.
it does a GRAVE DISSERVICE to women for the older women to think it is something to be proud of to "take it" because the men are dishing out abuse. these gnarly old ,proud women who think "we took it, so you can too...." like it is a monument of pride for their "endurance" rather than their thinking about resisting the evil that they have been subjected too, are WRONG.
it makes more sense to SPEAK THE TRUTH and say "this is wrong" and get some help. alos when a woman ASKS for help or is OBVIOUSLY in need of HELP....for the powers that be to sit by and do nothing is a crime in istself.
i ask again: where is the sperm donor?
he should be sitting in the hot seat in the court right along side her.
Posted by Tribal member on Jul 5 2007 12:26PM - You are so right The reservation has high rates of domestic violence and alcoholism. If every woman on Fort Berthold who is beaten, cheated on and left to fend for herself and her children had thoughts and actions like Deegan, there would be many dead babies laying around the prairies....Its called torture and cruelty."
me again: i was VERY GRATEFUL to YOU for speaking up! God bless you!
the "old gray haired women" i was referring to are those nincompoops in the legislature from grand forks and fargo who pushed through that nonsence that took the guts out of the
NO-SHACK UP law. THEY have done a grave disservice to the young women, and men of the next generations. (its embarrassing that the men in the legislature were dumb enough to listen to them and follow them. sad.)
if the NO-SHACK UP law got drug out, dusted off and enforced....1/2 of social services would be shut down. kids would HAVE the good old DADS
and the juvey courts would have more vacation time....etc.
if all the MEN who left babies around the neighborhood to fend for themselves were LOCKED up, society for everyone would be oh so much better. men have gone off for weeks and years at a time and left these women and children to fend for themselves for decades.
how many kids die from lack of medical care because the "sperm donor" is off playing golf....duh, he don't even know his baby is dying thta day....
nobody "holds a gun to the head" of these men who produce these babies and leave them. Dana may be another "andrea yates". post partum and all that....what she did is evil. no doubt. she may be psychopath? i have no clue, or she may have been so exhausted she just couldn't hold on to the rope keeping that baby afloat in the river any longer and just let go. was she so isolated nobody else even knew she was pregnant? HOW could that baby be "missing" and nobody else knew? more questions need to be asked.
if MEN were held accountable, these women who have been making the news lately would likely NEVER have done what they did.
North Dakota resident, when you say: "It doesn't matter about the sperm donor!" you really scare me. how would you know if she wanted to get pregnant? were you there?
didn't HE KNOW he couldn't afford another baby too?
did he know he wasn't going to be responsible for the mother and the baby?
didn't HE have 9 months to think about what HE was going to do for the mother and baby?
why didn't HE look into adoption or something rather than leave this mother, as so COMMONLY happens to so MANY women,....leave this mother with 4 kids and feeling hopeless?
people who cover for sperm donors are a HUGE part of THE PROBLEM!
if this woman is guilty of letting her baby die, she has done wrong.
BUT, like in the garden of Eden, God went right passed the woman and said: "ADAM!"....He had a little talk with ADAM and put the responsibility for that mess right on ADAM, the MAN.
Just Saying, you scare me.
as mothers who have delivered babies know.
to Adam: "the sweat of they brow" (work their heads off)
to Eve: "pain in child bearing,
and your desire with be toward
the man"....something like that it says.
9. They talk like they are experiencing heaven and act as if the world belongs to them.
10. So people praise them and no one finds fault with them.
11. They say, "God doesn't know what we're doing, otherwise, He would stop us. Maybe there is no God."
13. So why should I wash my hands in innocence and keep myself pure?14.I struggle with these thoughts daily.....15. I need to talk to you about it and not pass it on to future generations.....it only gets more complex." Clear Word 1-800-765-6955
www.adventistbookcenter.com (i am not an adventist, but do like that book! don't want to embarrass the adventist people by how blunt i am!)
sometimes "sperm donors" have money or act like they have money and make all sorts of lying promises...."of course i will take care of you and the kids...." splat!
i don't know if this woman was married or not....
but modern North Dakota culture being what it is,at least in THIS area, it is VERY common for women to get knocked up,
"get her papers" and go to the Social Services for bailing the sperm donor out. he is off, catting around in some other neighborhood, or discustingly, catting around again in the very same neighborhood....and some other young girl, "gets her papers", and Social Services bails this sperm donor out AGAIN! all the babies i know about in this area....have sperm donors and S.S. support i think. what a way to begin life just out of high school. or did they even graduate? where is the "statutory rape" law? why don't the men in office enforce it!? because THEIR SON maybe guilty.
sperm donor needs to get the choice, "sit in that cheap appartment with struggling little mama,(no more parties for him either), or YOU sit in the JAIL!" and no food! unless they grow it in the jail yard garden, can it and freeze it themselves....if they want a hamberger, they can, grow it, and butcher a steer, and cook it themselves. THIS is basically the situation they put little ding dong mama into, isn't it?
8. "....Proudly they lay plans to take advantage of others. 10. So people praise them and no one finds fault with them."....
people that do not want to take on the sperm donor and hold HIM accountable, blame it all on the woman=" it's all the woman's fault!." but oh NO! it is not.
this woman may have neglected her baby
but the sperm donor neglected the MOTHER and the BABY!
a man on t.v. report has TWELVE kids....compliments of the county....and he is not taking care of ANY of them from what i gathered. this was in California apparently. so what else is new?
when a woman bounces a check for $12.74, maybe she was buying a cheap pair of shoes for her kid, her name goes in the court records and newspaper....oh you bad woman....
But what newspapers REALLY NEED to do is add up the monthly collection of sperm donors who have run off and left little mama and child
at the door step of the S.S. office to fend for themselves.
now THAT would be "NEWS".
In the end, I hope she is left alone, uncared for, unloved.
how many days do you think the COURTS should dally before "deadbeat" gets his?
when it becomes "generally accepted" that the FATHERS are number one in responsibility for mothers and babies will this lopsided society probably right its self again?
how long until the news reports publish the name of the father/sperm donor the same number of times it prints the mothers name when ever these horrid cases happen?
right along side any mother who leaves her baby uncared for?
if every sperm donor got a life sentence for leaving the FIRST baby on the door step uncared for....his 5th and 6th and 12th
would never happen.
Because it takes 2. Someone had unprotected sex with her and then skipped town without even looking at her a second time, to see if she might have a hump. In the world I live in that is not how women should be treated under any circumsances. No matter if she is a ho or not.
WHO left her alone "in charge"?
Just because it is very common to blame the woman and excuse the man, why is it "pointless" to bring up that problem?
Do you have a son who may have pulled a stunt like this?
or did a brother leave a kid around the community?
HOW could you EVER get the convoluted notion that i ever thought anyone "had a right" to kill a baby?
Do you think i am HORRIFIED at your assumption?
Is it "irrational" for you to jump to such a conclusion?
How many people out in readersville really think I am an "idiot"?
If Dana Deegan, who i have never met and really know little about, really had "supporters" BEFORE this happened, would we probably have ever heard about her in this unfortunate news?
How many times does it need to be said that FATHERS have responsibility from the get go?
College Student, don't you think holding FATHERs responsible IS one way to follow your excellent suggestion to "focus more on PREVENTING somethiing like this (from) happening again" anywhere?
College Student, you mean well, and want to live in a peaceful world too, but puting our heads in the sand, or covering up, or tsk tsk, shh shh, not discussing something, does not help solve the problem. Right?
How many young men are suspect, because the one nasty who commits rapes on the college campus is not held accountable and the women are too afraid to speak up and the law does not deal with the pervert perp?
if all "sperm donors" from age 12 and up were held accountable for their letcherous ways, maybe 4/5th of these devastating problems would be cleared up, BEFORE they ever happened. in this day of DNA testing this would be a simple solution.
no more of this: "Stud" gets on with getting his master's degree, but the little mama drops out and goes on welfare then BATTLES her way back up the socail ladder with junior holding on to her skirts too". (rape at a college party)
"what is good for the goose is good for the gander" doesn't mean that all the BLAME naturally falls on the woman, does it?
how would you know if someone were raped or seduced or if she is an out and out alley cat herself? the trial hasn't come up and questions are just beginning to be asked, right? can we be confident that the trial people will even ASK the questions of the bigger picture? will the trial people just skim over the surface and only look at the obvious?
is the woman more of "an adult" than the man is?
do we expect the woman to do all the steps and "dance backwards in high heels" besides?
why do you think asking questions about men's responsibility equates with "excusing" what the woman might have done?
if a "man" runs off and leaves a women with ALL this responsibility by herself, why would anyone assume he could be innocent in this matter?
do you think your apparently being taught that women "have the abilites to care for ourselves and our young without need of men, etc." might be frightening 1/2 the species that God created too?
that is an extreme form of arrogance and you need to get over it.
who ever taught you that nonsense is a liar and you should not be listening to them.
have you been hurt by some man who should have taken better care of you?
send him my way, and i'll give him what for!
as for me especially as a kid, i can't imagine not having had my DAD!
he was loyal and faithful as a rock! not perffect, but i can't imagine him ever wandering off.
Again, I feel sorry for you. Particularly since you have such a backwards mindset - making statements such as "do you think your apparently being taught that women "have the abilites to care for ourselves and our young without need of men, etc." might be frightening 1/2 the species that God created too?"
It's nonsense to be strong and capable? To own our personal responsibilities?
Again, as I have already stated, TWICE mind you, I do not condone men leaving behind children. However, in this case, Shannon Hale did not know that his common law wife was pregnant with their FOURTH child as has been released by the press and as has been known by local reservation people.
As far as we all know, as far as it's been released, no one knew she was pregnant which is possible if someone is obese which Dana was. When a woman is of a large girth, it can be impossible to detect phyiscal pregnancy.
Of course, this is assuming that Shannon Hale was even the father. I knew Dana. I know what kind of woman she was. And if her common law husband was not the father of this child SHE KILLED, I wouldn't be surprised. I also know Shannon and I know what kind of man he is as did Dana. Neither, in my opinion, are upstanding people, however, Shannon hasn't murdered anyone either, not in a literal sense. DANA DID literally murder her child.
And if you are saying that by osmosis Shannon did kill that child, you're, again, an idiot. Read up on this case, "???", and get your facts straight. You are on a personal crusade it would seem to lower women, make them seem ineffectual and weak and incapable of caring for themselves and their kids. You are saying that if we, as women, have kids, and get left by our men, then anything that happens afterwords is the man's fault and that again, as I've already stated, is stupid. We have to own our personal responsibility irregardless of gender. Someday, I hope you learn this and are able to grow beyond your stunted way of thinking and thought process. Good luck to you and to the possibility of your own personal growth and acknowledgement of personal responsibility.
I had no idea the father was living with her. HE DIDN"T SEE THE BABY? OR HEAR IT CRY? What the HELL!!!!!!!!
why do you seem to read things into what i say and shut the door down tight on giving thought to the big picture on these horrible domestic situations?
have i even yet given thought as to WHY she may have done this? i don't know what happened or why. haven't a clue until questions are asked and hopefully truthfully answered. right?
have i tried to get people to see the bigger picture of a modern american culture that has really gone very bad by allowing men to slide on by and not take responsibility?
i think some of the cruelest and most harsh critics of other women are the women who really flatter themselves to be so "strong and capable".
if the man in this case may not have known the woman was pregnant, did the woman herself know she was pregnant?
if she were an obese woman it is not impossible for her to have been pregnant and not known it until delivery. did she go into psychological shock?
doesn't "personal responsibility and strength despite gender" apply to men too?
why do you twist what i say into me being "on a personal crusade it would seem to to lower women, make them seem ineffectual and weak and incapable..." when what i am really trying to do is the opposite, by trying to insist the MEN not be weak and to be capable and responsible?
women can't say men are worthless, and men can't say women are worthless. and by all means if people feel this way THEY should NEVER have children. that sets a child up for feeling worthless or feeling the other half of the species is worthless which is very serious pride in a very bad, unhealthy way.
North Dakota should be first in line to drag out the old SHACK-UP
law and enforce it. like was stated before those old gray haired women of Fargo and Grand Forks did a bad thing to put a blight on that old law. no matter if its donald trump shacking up for 5 years before he finally gets married, or if it is the town drunk....all the same difference. bad news for the culture.
Second - I am basing everything I've said regarding the articles that have been released.
Third - I have no sympathy regarding a woman OR man for that matter, who would kill a child. None. I am not a murder-sympathizer such as yourself.
Fourth - You twist your own words around so many times, that I don't think you know what you are saying. Your contridictions are immense and laughable.
Fifth - If am cruel and harsh as a strong woman because I feel it is wrong, WRONG what Dana Deegan did, then I will wear that Critical Mantel with pride. What she did was wrong and I have abhorr anyone who chooses to murder the lives of children.
Where is your stance for the baby? You'd rather accuse and blame the man then the woman who ADMITTED to the murder herself.
Reread the articles. It's simple, really. Click on her name and read before you spout nonsense and assumptions. I am done dealing with your ignorance, however, you can keep typing to me as I am sure you will. Just don't expect me to waste any more of my time. Just as much as I abhorr murder, I also abhorr ignorance, especially when there is so much information out there to educate one's self.
what nonsense. but it seems that society really needs to take it very serious this nasty business of impregnating women and then running off and leaving her high and dry. some how that woman is supposed to know how to float no matter what.
for the last 1/2 century, and it is getting WORSE and WORSE, men have been given some sort of free pass and people get all agast when some evil thing happens with out really caring to go back and see what may have precipitated the problem. they get out there and chant: "oh that nasty woman!" but they ignore the tougher half of the problem...."Oh that nasty MAN too!"
to have children and not take care of them is a serious EVIL. but men are more to blame then women! next to blame, are women who think they are such hot stuff they would never get into a pickle....and have so compassion for mothers etc. (or like: "i've had it tough so i might as well sit by and watch YOU suffer too...." that is a heartless mean old woman thought process.)
since the days of ADAM, it has been common to blame the woman....Adam even blamed God for having given him that woman...."But Lord, the woman THOU gavest me did...."
and God said, forget that buster....i am dealing with YOU head on!
Eve messed up. but God dealt straight on with ADAM first....then back to Eve. you can read in Genesis at the very beginning of the Bible.
i have never thought this woman should be "excused" if she let her baby die. something is obviously really wrong there....however i think the state as a whole needs to get its act together and quit
turning a blank look to all this "shacking-up" and get out the parson and the pen and paper and make some serious LEGAL arrangements, like it is called "marriage". guys who think they should get all the "rights" of marriage without the "responsibilities" of marriage need to get shipped off to Siberia to cool off for a few years....we won't miss any of them guys.
now marriage, that is a novel concept that the little "baby-makers" around here have not managed to remember in recent years. shacking-up is an automatic "out" for men isn't it? some silly nincompoop gets knocked up, and if he has his name on the house....she and the kids are out on the road. he is a LOUT!
the kids might become homeless nincompooplouts.
i don't know anything in particular about Dana and Hale....but the shack-up "life style" is really twisting up society.
i can't imagine why people think SHE is more responsible for that baby's well being than the man is.
had this woman been drinking when this baby disappeared?
people were agast at the thought of abortion....then that evil seeped in....
then some misguided person thinks: what is one more month OUT of the womb different from the last month or two IN the womb....leaving this baby to die is the next step from abortion.
first evil step is abortion
second evil sstep is infanticide. means "killing babies".
people WARNED about that BEFORE the govt. got so lax on allowing abortions....and guess what. here it is....right in North Dakota....allowing a baby to die....like the Shiavo case in Florida....they just "let" that woman die....took her two weeks but she did it. what else could she do?
abortion to infanticide, (killing babies) to euthenasia....just like the old people warned years ago. right here in North Dakota.
they seem to say: "i'm tough as a bull dog, so lady, YOU fight your own battles too! you aint gonna count on ME for nothin' lady!"
its like a pit bull going after a poof poof pet poodle....that pit bull just wants to shred it!
"NO compassion".
those women are often times tougher than men.
they scare me and make me want to run for the hills!
if these women are the jury, it is like "the cat was hung by an all dog jury!"
"NO compassion." before or after
Where in the world is your compassion for the baby THAT WAS MURDERED by it's mother?
Have you heard that women can now go to school? Can vote? Can adopt? Can have jobs? Can stay at home and raise her kids? Can do both simutaniously? Lord, two sides, I feel sorry for you that you fear a woman with strength when you in all reality, you should be giving praise when women, as a gender, had been oppressed for so long throughout the centuries in most cultures.
The baby DID NOT disappear. Read the articles as I have stated SO MANY TIMES. Dana admitted to leaving her baby alone, for two weeks to starve, so that she wouldn't have to care for it. She then returned to find the baby dead as she had expected to, wrapped it in plastic and a towel and then placed it in a suitcase and tossed out into the fields of her brother in law's ranch. READ before you post nonsense. Again with the ignorance! So STUPID! Look at the facts! SHE ADMITTED TO THIS!!!!!!!!!!!! How thick is you skull that it can't absorb any information?! Purposeful ignorance is disgusting when there is much information about this case out there already - right at your fingertips to boot. It's easy, really. Click her name at the top of this articles and read. IT really isn't hard to stick to the facts instead of making assumptions.
No, I can assuredly say that I would not make the same choices as Dana Deegan did, murder included. I am sorry to read that you would.
Many, Whoot.
Use your brain, I am positive you have one.
No. I do know, with who I am, with the soul that I have, if I had been through her situtation, I would not have done what she has done. You are ridiculous to think that everyone would. Again, generalizations, assumptions.
Again, I am so sorry that you would. I am sorry for you that you have a soul capable of murdering your own children.
With everything she has or had gone through, and I can't say that I know, with everything out there informationally, she should and could have learned from it, if she was capable of learning. Some people are not, I realize this, and some people refuse growth. There is evidence of this.
You are apparently someone who does not learn from your mistakes or the mistakes of others that affect you. You must not try, apparently.
I do. Many people do. Which is why many people DO NOT CHOOSE TO MURDER THEIR CHILDREN. Which is why many people WOULD NOT CHOOSE TO MURDER THIER CHILDREN.
Personal growth, Whoot. It's a good thing.
Webster's New Millenniumâ„¢ Dictionary of English - Cite This Source Main Entry: critical thinking
Part of Speech: n
Definition: the mental process of actively and skillfully conceptualizing, applying, analyzing, synthesizing, and evaluating information to reach an answer or conclusion
I agree with you whole heartedly, Pro and it's obvious you are a critical thinker. I have to give you kudos. And I have read the articles, as well as everyones thoughts on this thread. These three you've dealt with are ignorant and it's not worth your time.
And souls are spirit. Do you know what spirit is?
WHO left her alone in charge?
your own information is very helpful: "....she did what she did because she didn't feel she could be financially responsible for another child."
WHY didn't she feel HALE would be responsible and HELP her?
WHY did she feel SHE had to be responsible for everything?
why didn't she feel she could count on the "strong" women of the area to help her? or would they have just shot her blanks and looked their noses down? if she reached out for a hand would they have pulled her up, or just pushed her head UNDER the water?
you are absolutely right that this is a terrible crime.
you really are right to have such strong feelings for that baby too.
it is just that North Dakota has to take a serious look at WHY people get into these kinds of messes in the first place. what can be done to "take a stitch in time" to fix something before it splits completely, or to defuse the bomb from going off in the first place?
one cure would be to pull out the old NO SHACK UP law and USE it.
another cure for mothers in serious stress would to find all the rapists and LOCK THEM UP for the FIRST offence....bye bye for LIFE! they used to just take those guys out and HANG them. how many stress pregnancy's would that solve? how many evil abortions would that prevent?
with DNA testing
if for EVERY underage pregnancy there was some sperm doner sitting in the prison for a serious amount of TIME, how many stress pregnancy's would that solve? UNLESS it were a married couple! where that man has SERIOUS intent "to love,honor.....till death do us part". ditto for the woman.
with DNA testing
if every guy who had one unwed baby had to do 20 years in the prison, would the need for half of social services dry up? rather than getting by with leaving the mother AND the baby hungry, he finds out what it is like to hoe the beets in the prison garden or HE doesn't eat! how many little high school studds would think twice before they did their alley cat number on some little naive,trusting nincompoop at a party if they KNEW in ND they faced 29 years in the pen? how old was Dana when she had her first child?
ALL the babies in this area, with the exception of ONE, that i have heard about in the last few YEARS, are UNWED babies. oh there is one more, she and her married mama AND daddy moved out.
do you wonder why i ask questions?
there is hope for dana too.
Goodness, Whoot. You have some real interesting ideas..
Of course, this is saying that everyone is a christian and believes, literally, your interpretation of the bible, etc.. and of course, this is stating we are all indeed christians and there is no other religious or spiritual beliefs amoung us. Ha!
No, Whoot. I am done with your ignorance, but please, continue quoting your interpretations of christianity and why you feel it's alright what Dana did. I refuse to continue to waste my time with you as has been already advised.
31"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'
37"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'
40"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'
41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'
44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'
45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'
46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
I am saying I believe what he teaches is the right way to walk. And I want to try to base my opinions and beliefs on him.
And I believe in Peace and Love and Mercy and Compassion.
http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/203124/Three_Dead_Babies_Found_In_Mississippi_River
You will do right for yourself to re-read what you have written. Your expressions do seem to condone Dana's actions. Perhaps you can better clearly state your feelings once you re-read what you have stated and get some rest.
You may want to retract your statements and learn to recognize other beliefs in this world. Not every one believes in Jesus and Christianity. Your rantings regarding Bible verses are not seriously considered as truth to many nor even tolerated. To some even rubbish! It may be good sense to keep your christian remarks to a very low key.
No matter Whoot........to every culture in our Big World, murder is wrong! and the person who commits it is the criminal...whether it is insanity or whatever. Dana Deegan is a BABY KILLER! as I have stated before, no one made her do it, she made that choice.
I do not intend to be disrespectful of your christian beliefs, as in the same vain you need to recognize there are other beliefs.
Pro Life is clearly a strong healthy women who is trying to help people like you to be strong and understand the BIG PICTURE. She seems to see that killing your child is unacceptable and it does not matter whether there is a man in the picture. It will benefit you to really listen to what she is saying
Again........RE-READ.
I AM JUST LOOKING AT THE BIG PICTURE! Can't you see, we have to?>
2. When a man (and I think men who ditch reponsibility for their children are losers) leaves a pregnant woman or turns his back on his babies, there's still the reasonable expectation the woman will find a way to take care of them.
Women get pregnant, men don't. It's biology. Is it RIGHT to make babies and not help take care of them? No way. But as long as women have the uterus and carry the baby inside them, they have more responsibility. It is what it is.
3. Men can and do kill their babies sometimes. Sometimes, they even kill the mother. A monster is a monster, male or female.
because "women have the uterus and carry the baby"
these problems will persist.
because "women have the uterus and carry the baby"
these problems will persist.
Perfection! She is a torturer and a murderer. There is no other way to explain it. Man or no man in her life , SHE killed an infant. If the roles had been reversed, say the father committed the murder, would whoot wonder where the mother was? There is no bigger picture in instances like these.
Did you read that, Two Side, Whoot? Why is it so hard to stick to the facts? She murdered her child! We as a people discern between right and wrong which is why we have laws and punishments. This is called Judgement.
It doesn't matter if she had a man or not - it was Ms. Deegan who murdered her child intentionally. It was Ms. Deegan who starved that baby to death, and threw it out like trash she didn't want to be responsible for.
Like the above commentator said, "When a man (and I think men who ditch reponsibility for their children are losers) leaves a pregnant woman or turns his back on his babies, there's still the reasonable expectation the woman will find a way to take care of them."
Yes, it is resonable to expect that the mother would take care of her child even if there was no man around. This is not unresonable.
"Women get pregnant, men don't. It's biology. Is it RIGHT to make babies and not help take care of them? No way. But as long as women have the uterus and carry the baby inside them, they have more responsibility."
Nuff Said.
Deegan said she returned about two weeks later and found the baby dead, an affidavit said."
Also, if you read these articles on this case, it states that she was married! According to "Two Side of the story", he/she implies that this wouldn't happen if they had been married. Welp, she was married, folks!
Well you know what? She isn't a psychopath for LEAVING the baby, she's a psychopath for KILLING her baby. If a man killed the baby, then yes, he would be a psychopath, too.
Wow, you have difficulty processing facts, huh?
men go into burning building to save their young....
they work their fingers to the bone to support them.
if she were really "married" why didn't the man go home, find the baby, DO SOMETHING? where was the father?
the "single mother" society is a very abnormal society.
how many "sperm donors" have done this for years?
how many women have been left "forsaken and hated"?
why is it so hard to admit that modern culture has a very serious and evil problem of "sperm donors" LEAVING babies? how many men are guilty of not even taking the SIX steps of care that "sick" mother did before she left?
she is not right, that is obvious to all
but this persistent disregard for checking under the rocks to find the "father" and not holding fathers ACCOUNTABLE for happenings in their own house....is the REAL excusing that needs to be dealt with.
is shannon hale the father or is there some other lout they should be looking for?
when people want to make things so simple and just blame the woman for all this evil, it is because they do not want to deal with the MEN. they probably have a nephew out there who has left kids, or their son or husband or someone....they do not want to DEAL with THAT....so they go ballistic on a woman.
the man left 1 baby, 3 girls AND the mother. that's 5 counts.
The man killed no one.
Wow, where are you coming from?!
And everything that ONE person has said, it so off topic. This is about Dana Deegan and what Dana Deegan as ADMITTEDLY done. Not about whether she was poor, uneducated, without a man, etc.. it's about the fact she KILLED her infant child.
I wonder why there isn't more outrage over the death of this child and more outrage over the fact that the man, whoever he might have been, wasn't there? Why is everyone so focused on the man who wasn't there? The man who DID NOT physically kill his child? I am sorry, but a man leaving a woman, divorcing a woman, stepping out on a woman, whichever way you want to spin it, IS NOT the SAME as a human being killing another human being.
One is murder.
The other is not.
Fool.
can ya stick to the topic? deegan is a monster. she killed her baby.
why oh why do you condone murder? and make excuses for murder? murder is wrong! or don't you know that? if you dont, im scared of you!
I agree. STAY ON TOPIC!!!!!!!!!!! and knock off the bible thumpin.
This baby had a name.
wouldn't it be fair to have the father in the same court to answer to leaving his baby alone? and the baby died.
car trouble. the car has a flat tire. its name is Mother.
(but make sure you don't bring up the fact that the car has another flat tire also. its name is Father. shhhh! we're gonna blame this entire wreck on Mother.)
you might like to just look at the tip of the topic,
others might like to look way down into the ocean like an iceberg.
They fight a war on "other partners marriages" a bond and Love and commitment to "other" people God made that are not like them. They think if they condone that Love, people who are straight will turn Gay. (this will not happen, I don't think) But they will condone divorce. Because their followers get divorces because of frivolous selfish reasons. Because they do not realize marriage is for the children. Not for the adults happiness. So they fight the wrong battles. They fight Love.
Thanks be to ALL THE GODS And GODDESSES!!!!
(that's for you whoot)
Nope. She's on the dockets to answer for MURDER@! Not neglect, or abandonment! MURDER!
She is a murderer. Pretty hard to grasp, eh? You must like them murdering mothers.. wow.
Can you show me? I don't think I had even posted other than to correct your simpleton self.
1If I speak in the tongues[a] of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames,[b] but have not love, I gain nothing.
4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
8Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. 11When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. 12Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
13And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.
i just thought you ought to be reminded that according to other beliefs, your god didn't create other's gods. their god did. just like you think your god created everything. some people simply belive in science. evolution.
i just wanted to remind you that your little religious beliefs, though fine and dandy for you, aren't what every one else in the world believes. so maybe you ought to keep it, like that tribal member said, on a very low key.
by the way, one thing i've always dislike about christianity and it's followers is that so many of them want to force their beliefs down other peoples throats. imagine how many wars, deaths, etc. would have been avoided if it weren't for those crazy christians!
Typical. Can't come up with your own words, so you just copy and paste someone else's. Well, at least it's more readable compared to the hogwash that you post when you are thinking for yourself, I suppose.
Prolife has a little problem being rude.
She does not realize what she is saying all the time and just storms ahead thinking she knows stuff that she doesnt.
Maybe she has had one year of college and thinks she knows all.
Prolife is a very intelligent sounding person who has tried hard to get across her thoughts to whoot........, and it is extremely frustrating to try and communicate with those like whoot, it simply cannot not work when whoot has no vision other then bible verses. College or no college some people are just intelligent and well others............. lost causes.
When you have tunnel vision there is no hope and unfortunately that seem to be where "poor whoot" is. Just iggy her and her ranting and gibberish. Confusion, inabilty to express, and lack of vocabulary is where whoot appears to be.
You have to feel sympathy and pray for people of whoot's kind.
And, yes this is about a women who killed her baby and her admission. Some have gone somewhere else with the facts.
If you pay any attention at all to people like whoot, you are just banging your head on a rock, you are wasting your intelligence and time.
"cause and effect".
With everything she has or had gone through, and I can't say that I know, with everything out there informationally, she should and could have learned from it, if she was capable of learning. Some people are not, I realize this, and some people refuse growth. There is evidence of this.
You are apparently someone who does not learn from your mistakes or the mistakes of others that affect you. You must not try, apparently.
I do. Many people do. Which is why many people DO NOT CHOOSE TO MURDER THEIR CHILDREN. Which is why many people WOULD NOT CHOOSE TO MURDER THIER CHILDREN.
Personal growth, Whoot. It's a good thing."
I did not kill my child, so I do not have to LEARN anything! What I do have to learn, is how to support women in this world. Because she said she could not financially support the baby. So she cleaned it fed it and left it. She did not cut it up or suffocate it or rape it. She did not then dispose the body in a way to cover her "crime." And as a society, we have a lesson to learn here. If you don't like that this happened to this little baby, you HAVE to see what caused it and what can be done to prevent it. Because this happens where you do not know about it, as a society, and the people who did it, do it, and are going to do it will keep doing it, and getting away with it and not learning a lesson.
I don't want little babies to be born just to starve adn be alone and die. I would rather she had an abortion. (first 3 months only, not viable outside the womb)
I am pro choice. I do not think a woman should be forced to carry an unwanted baby, I would rather the the little embryo be removed than the HELL a child has to live with if they are growing up in a home that does not Love or want them, or if they have to be seen as a financial burden.
My experience, I see most Drs won't bring up birth control and explain the diffs. And they always seem to want to push the hormones pills or hormone shots. That messes women up, and then they would rather just not. We need women who do not want to have babies to have condoms! (so they do not catch diseases) and they need something like IUDs! Without hormones. And for the poor it needs to be free. Then when you find a loving man who wants to be with you and you talk and both agree you would like to make a commitment to raise a child, then you take out the IUD and have a baby/ No more sneaky babies coming out. STOP THAT!
ANd women need to realize they should not have babies or even want them if the babies don't get Loving daddies. Because you are cheating these kids by not giving them their daddies. If "the creator" thought it would be a good idea for a single entity (woman) to raise children, then there would be no man. "the creator" gave a back up plan. SO START USING HIM!
It costs $350 to get an IUD.
I am poor, and have no money. There is no programs that will pay for these options.
Now you will tell me I have other options. I can give up my baby for adoption. Well I don't want to have babies for other people to raise them. And we should not be saying poor people who cannot afford birth control should be breeders for all the rich folks who God does not bless with a child. The only person who can really Love my child is ME!
Adoption is not the option! We do not breed for other people just because we are poor.
I am through with you, as everyone else seems to be as well.
Dana Deegan will be on trial for 1st degree murder. Apparently, the authorities DONT think the way that you do, THANKFULLY.
I would laught at you if I didn't feel so SORRY for you. You are so incredibly illogical.
Lets stop the starvation, of the other little Moses'.
I have met people who were adopted, They are so messed up mentally, it is so evident.
And I have met people who were raised by step parents. What a crock! No one can Love your children like THIER mother and father. The way a child needs to be Loved.
You can judge her all you want, and she should be judged, she did a horrible thing. But so do other women and men. Look at the big picture and realize this.
Yeah, just like I thought. You would murder your own child. Too bad social services couldn't find out who you are, so they could keep a file on you. The admins here DO have you isp address - perhaps they will see you as a potential child murderer and report you. You are very sick, Whoot, and quite frightening.
As I said before, most people would not CHOOSE to kill their child and you just admittedly said you would, as you implied before. Well now you just said it.
Scary.
I don't like it. I would rather we nip these unwanted babies in the bud, and fund a reliable method of birth control for the poor people who should not be birthing children into poverty, single without a mans support. So they are not forced to breed, and go it alone, and make these tough decisions.
You give a woman BC, she has to go back every few months and pick them up, she has to go in and get paps on schedule or they take the BC away. It is hard to get a pap if you don't even have money for food. Then, on a whim, a woman can "just stop taking their pill" and ooh look we get a baby. There is no logic thought process, like I have a man that will work and support us and I can raise my own child. And a man that will watch the baby once in awhile so I can take a bath. Or I have a man that can help with the laundry occassionally. Babies are 24 hour jobs. What is the point of giving birth if you are going to let a stranger be your babies world 10 hours a day while you work?
You give a woman an IUD and she has 12 years of protection from unwanted pregnancy, no side effects, no heart attacks or strokes caused by this BC. And she has to THINK before she gets pregnant. She has to make a decision to have a baby. She has to pay money to get the IUD out. If you don't even have money to get that IUD out, how can you afford a baby?
Are you looking, KXnet? You must be because it would appear you deleted her post. She has already stated that she is poor and a mother, so perhaps this is something that ought to be reported to whichever officals that need to know. Frightening.
If I couldn't afford to feed my child or diaper my child, I would rather let it die like this. Than hand it over to some stranger that the creator does not think should have or bless with a child. Maybe that person is a rapist? Or a murderer?
what the hell you sick freak. you are just as stupid as dana... maybe you are related?!?!
You want to be pro life? Give women a choice not to get pregnant in the first place. The pro life base is a group of people who do not believe in birth control. They want FORCED BREEDING! You want to give women a choice to get pregnant? YOu recommend reliable birth control! IUDs! Not pills they can go off of on a whim! Pills that make them feel sick, like they don't even want them. Pills they have to keep going to the Dr for. Stop making women jump through hoops!
I am PRO LIFE for WOMEN! No more SLAVES to FORCED BREEDING!
When the cops come to my home. They will find I am married to the father of my four children. I stay home and raise my OWN damn children! And I have no work skills, and am trapped here! SEND THEM!
(f) Forced either by poverty, or else with the intent that the master should marry her.
I am telling you to LISTEN to him! And I am explaining him to you ! For FREE! It is a gift. Take it.
I spoke to you like a child. Follow him.
You want to hang me up and crucify me next to Dana? I did not kill any child of God.
Jesus, if you belive this way, would never have killed a child. You mention how we are all the same. We are all created in God's image (again if you belive this way) sure, but do you hear of Jesus preaching on the rightness of child murder because there is a parent out of the family picture? No. Do you remember any part of the Bible condoning murder of any kind? No. Hell, euthanasia isn' even condoned in the good book, when that's one form of murder that probably should be legalized under controlled circumstances.
So you probably shouldn't back any of your wierdness with scripture. You should probably just shut you mouth , or in this case stop typing, and just accept that the majority of the people on here don't agree with you viewpoint. I for one am sick of reading this. I just couldn't handle reading your words anymore. So I chimed in on this.
It's a murder trial. MUR-DER. Not a single mom trial. Not an abortion trial. Not a adoption is wrong trial. Not a Biblical trial. Murder.
I'm sure Baby Moses (not Noah, not Isaac, not Nebuchadnezzar, not Jesus) would have been happier living in another household, no matter your viewpoint, whoot. Adoption could have saved this child's life. Social Services and foster care could have saved this child's life. Isn't that what is really important. That, and the fact that Dana was too stupid to put her child up for these things.
People who kill their own children because they can't take proper care of them should not be allowed to have future children. People who think killing a child is a viable option if future neglect might occur should not be allowed to have children.
I swear if only the government could monitor these blogs and could keep track of who says what they should tag you, whoot, and mark you as a potential unfit mother. Maybe they could just get you fixed and save the rest of the world the heartache of having to worry if you are going to kill you kids someday.
People get pregnant out of wedlock, deal with it.
Parents sometimes have partners that leave them, deal with it.
This is the world in the 21st century, you nut.
And murder is still wrong.
My Dad is so wierd. He visited. And told me to "swim through the unniverse"
I saw someone wondering who conspired 911. I was at work one day and the spider showed me women in the middle east. Afghanistan. They needed help. I asked God. I begged God. I said Emergency! Emergency!
But here we have women who need help, too.
I being flown in a plane and half asleep. I was dreaming I would sacrifice our plane full of people for those women. I opened my eyes and people were glaring at me. They were angry.
The last time I was in church I cried when the people took communion. I do not know what was in their minds, but they glared at me. I was told to "give him back his youth." and shook the mans hand and he said womens hands are so cold, and boys hands are so warm. Later on that day my Mom died.
I do not know what is going on in Iraq. I know God can bring Peace.
They stumble and stagger like drunken men; they are at their wits end to know what to do.
28. Then in their trouble, the call on the Lord, and He saves them out of their distress.
29. He calms the storm, and soon the waves are still.
30. They are glad that everything is quiet and peaceful again and that God has guided them back to a safe harbor.
31. We should thank the Lord for His love and for all the wonderful things He has done for His people.
32. We should exalt Him in our congregations and praise Him in our board meetings.
Clear Word Psalm 106:37 THEY sacrificed their own sons and daughters as religious prostitutes and offered their infants to demons. 38. THEY sacrificed so many innocent children that
the country seemed polluted with blood. THEY degraded themselves by participating in sexual orgies as part of pagan worship.
40. The Lord abhorred their degrading practices and was extremely displeased with His people. 41. He had no choice but to remove His protection and let them be overrun by heathen armies and ruled by their enemies. 42. Their enemies oppressed them, and they were kept subjected to their power by heavy taxation.
43. Time and again the Lord RESCUED them, but they continued to rebel against Him and sank deeper into sin.
44. But when they cried for help, the Lord heard them and delivered them. 45 He never forgot the promise He had made to their forefathers, and He responded to their prayers in unfailing love. 46. He caused those who carried them away captive to have pity on them.
47. Save us, O Lord our God, and bring us back from heathen lands to our own country. We will always thank you and praise your holy name. 48. Come, let us praise the God of Israel. Let us praise Him now and forever. Let all the people say, "Amen!"
Praise the Lord!
I feel sorry for your kids with the kind of mother they must have. I hope that KX is watching and does flag you, as anothe poster already stated, for potentionally being an unfit mother. I, howeber, do think you are an unfit mother just based on how much you post here when you have FOUR kids you OUGHT to be paying more attention to, you big freak.
what happened to the whole "it takes a villiage (or in this case a tribe) to raise a child" thing?????
What Dana Deegan did to her child was profound and unpredictable. She is a lunatic and commited a deranged act. How one prevents that from happening again? I don't have an answer for that.
I think one needs to realize there is nothing one can do. If it were predictable, one could take preventive measures. What she did, there is nothing.
Whats your thought. What do you suppose should be done to prevent this type of insane act? Test mothers to be?, test them regularly? How realistic is that? There thousands of mothers in her shoes, they just don't do what she did.
Whoot is NOT saying that she wants to murder her children and all that drama you put on her, what she is trying to say, i think, is that she has probably seen serious cases of bad things that have happened to kids who have been adopted etc and she is very afrraid of that for other children.
NOBODY has said it is OK to murder children etc. and you keep hanging on to your slithering little twists you put on things....NOT
what was actually said or the intent of what is said.
it doesn't seem you are looking for solutions for preventing these sorts of problems in the future, you are just pounding and pounding on the same old nag. "Dana dun wrong." everybody KNOWS that. the discusion would be more helpful if people were giving some thought to helping in the future, not keeping on beating the same old dead horse till its hamberger.
"Dana dun wrong." "Dana dun wrong" and you can't ONE TIME step on further and ask, "why?"
because "women have the uterus and carry the baby"
these problems will persist."
Women DO have the uterus and carry the baby, you can't change biology. SHOULD fathers stay and care for the children they help create? Of course. I'm not excusing the Dads who take off, but you can NOT equate leaving a baby with his mother to care for him and deliberately leaving him with NOBODY, knowing he will die.
Sure, there are men who know the mother is not fit. Look how many men are fighting for custody to try to save their children from unfit mothers, but the courts still don't see anything other than that uterus and the fact the mother carried the baby for 9 months when they make their decision!
You can't have it both ways. You can't claim "more ownership" of a child because you're the mother in court, then say the father has to bear the responsibility when the mother kills the child. It doesn't wash. Equal responsibility means there should be equal parental rights.
I raised my children alone. I don't have much of a support system. Whoot talks about "Maybe she just needed ME time" and all the people who talk about how others should have reached out to her and maybe she wouldn't have killed the child. Hogwash. She was not only cabable of murder, but she covered it up LIED about it all these years and just pretended it didn't happen. That's sick.
That's not the fault of "society". That's not the fault of an absent father. It's a mentally ill woman's choice to let her baby die a slow, agonizing death, then to go about her own life like nothing happened.
In this country we place no value on our kids, go to the NDsexoffenders page and see how many first time offenders there are, I am not talking about 19 year olds sleeping with 16 year olds, I am talking about grown men sleeping with little girls and boys. In this country if you kill a judge or cop it is an automatic life sentence. If you sexually assault a child you get a two to five year vacation and then are free to recommit. DISGUSTING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by whoot! on Jul 14 2007 2:35PM
If I couldn't afford to feed my child or diaper my child, I would rather let it die like this.
You said she didn't say this. Well, what's this then? Sounds to me like she said she'd kill her kids, too. And anyway, you're the one who is doggedly sayin 'oh lets blame the dad, oh women can't have kids on her own' and on and on. Now you're trying the preventive angle. Get a life and a better opinion.
As tribal member as eloquently stated more than once, Dana is a psychopath. It would take a psychotic mind to grasp her reasoning.
Now you ask, what can we do to stop this from happening again. All that you have contributed are excuses for Dana, blaming the man repeatedly, disgracing and putting down single women and women who are strong, capable, etc.. You say I state things you haven't said - which is untrue. Scroll up, read what you have written. It's all there.
All you have done is blamed men and offended single women, strong women and capable women. You have contributed nothing.
Like Tribal member also stated, " I think one needs to realize there is nothing one can do. If it were predictable, one could take preventive measures. What she did, there is nothing.
Whats your thought. What do you suppose should be done to prevent this type of insane act? Test mothers to be?, test them regularly? How realistic is that? There thousands of mothers in her shoes, they just don't do what she did."
I have to agree with her entirely. If you can find some realistic answer to prevent this from happening again, share it. No one is stopping you. However, if you think marriage, or a man staying in the house, etc.. will stop this type of crime from happening again, I am sorry to say that you are wrong however, as unrealistic and offensive as your opinions are, they are your opinions. Thankfully, you are a minority in the way you percieve things. Single women, homes without men, etc.. are not the reason why these things happen. Many people come from single parent homes and are not messed up to the point you'd like to believe.
All you have done is displaced blame continously. All I have done is express my outrage over what Dana has done.
As for 'the drama' you say I place on Whoot, read what she has written, she has stated more than once that she would kill her kids if she were unable to be responsible for them. I did not make that up. Again, scroll, read, comprehend. It's not hard.
making the wrong choice.
Dana is not a psychopath for doing what she did. Psychopaths are god fearing people who drown there seven children with their bare hands. Psychopaths put their babies in the microwave for crying. I can't begin to understand why she did this but I can only deduce she must have been under extreme stress.
People can't understand why she was let out of jail. They fear for her other children but I'm sure the state saw she was not a threat to them. This can only make me believe that the state has other facts that you have not heard of. I think we should all wait until the trial starts before we form opinions of this case. Before we pass judgment we need to hear the whole story that is not being told at this time.
Dana has three other kids and because of this fact I hope the court's can show some mercy. The university student who did the same thing got three years supervised probation.
I understand a baby is dead and I'm not trying to find an excuse or a way out for what Dana did. It was horrible. I wish things could be different. It happened eight years ago when laws were used to punish women who abandoned their babies. Sensibly the laws were finally changed to end these crimes.
I'm sure she was pretty smugly sure she'd never get caught.
If she truly loves and cares for her living children, she'd have not murdered their brother and left herself open to the possibility of losing them if her crime was discovered.
How do you think they feel, knowing their mother killed their brother?
BTW- the safe haven laws haven't done all that much to stem the tide, either.
The circumstances are unknown to me. But, murder is murder.
The "sperm donor" didn't commit the crime. I'm not saying he's morally perfect, but he didn't kill a baby.
Holding other people culpable for your actions is cowardly. As if she didn't consent to the "sperm donor".
The baby was alive. The baby has a soul. Imagine the amount of dead lives there would be if the "sperm donor" was absent. Nine months is a long time to make plans. Imagine that baby, in death throes, starving, wasting away, and gasping for breath as functional systems shut down, all the while not knowing why it was tugged from a nutritional system (in utero), only to have this fate. Crying (the only survival instinct babies have), and having no answer. Human babies are probably the least-equipped to handle survival, due to our evolutionary trait of dependence. The mother didn't know, or instinctually sense, this?
Why hasn't this "mother" been sentenced to the maximum, regardless of the kids she "takes care of"?
Rip on me all you want. If some other person had taken the child and done what was done, they would be held accountable, regardless of circumstances.
This is not a racial, tribal, or segregatory issue. It's about how a fellow human should be treated, not packed.
It all comes down to "Thou Shalt Not Kill". Period.
Actually, It is socio path, not psychopath. Look up the difference.
How did Jesus die? Did he die on the cross because he had no food and water? Whose will was it that he die? What happened to the Jews? Was it because God would rather they starve to death than be under Hitler?
Just some very simple questions. Please think them through. I ran out of time after the comment I referenced, so I did not read any further comments.
Man or no man in her life, Dana Deegan killed her child. The circumstances in her life do not matter either. Look at the poor countries of the world. There are women AND men in Africa that cannot feed, clothe or educate their children, but they also don't MURDER their children.
There is no amount of legal JUSTICE that can punish Dana deegan enough. That innocent baby was tortured to death. Children should know nothing but love. This baby knew nothing but fear, pain, and abandonment. It makes me sick.
God show NO mercy on her soul.
Just some very simple questions. Please think them through. I ran out of time after the comment I referenced, so I did not read any further comments"
Like Tarahld said to you, Whoot, this has nothing to do with this issue. Your religion and beliefs and the questions you ask have nothing to do with this issue. When are you gonna get the fact that NOT EVERYBODY believe the way you do? For someone who doesn't believe in Jesus, etc.. your questions are moot. Pointless.
Your convictions that God let the Jews starve to death so that they wouldn't be under Hitler are YOUR BELIEFS. Not FACT. Man, it was better when you had SHUT the HECK UP. Now you're back with this gibberish again. GET A LIFE, WHOOT!!
What's evident? That adoption messed them up? I am adopted. My brother is adopted. I've met many adopted people throughout my life. Guess what? The part about being adopted isn't usually the part that makes people unbalanced. The only people I've encountered who have problems are people who were in bad situations BEFORE they were adopted. They were taken out of bad situations and placed in loving homes. It's fine, be pro-choice Whoot but understand adoption is a great choice. It would have been a shame for my parents to not have had the opportunity to raise children because they are amazing people. Sure, it's possible the adoptive parents won't be wonderful but the process it takes for adoption usually weeds out a good portion of them. Kids are no more likely to be abused by adoptive parents than they are with any old person who gets pregnant on their own.
You should be ashamed of yourself for some of the posts you've made. The scariest part in all this is you are spreading your insanity to your own children. This well-adjusted adopted kid is going back to her successful life now.
Someone whose social behavior is extremely abnormal. Sociopaths are interested only in their personal needs and desires, without concern for the effects of their behavior on others. (Compare psychopath.)
psychopath
noun
someone with a sociopathic personality; a person with an antisocial personality disorder ('psychopath' was once widely used but has now been superseded by 'sociopath') [syn: sociopath]
GET your stuff straight, Whoot. Tribal member has it right. Psychopaths are Synonymous with one Sociopaths, WHICH MEANS that they are different words with similar or identical meanings and are interchangeable. So you think you're refuting and contridicting her, but you're not, you joke.
"Actually, It is socio path, not psychopath. Look up the difference.
How did Jesus die? Did he die on the cross because he had no food and water? Whose will was it that he die? What happened to the Jews? Was it because God would rather they starve to death than be under Hitler?
Just some very simple questions. Please think them through. I ran out of time after the comment I referenced, so I did not read any further comments"
Well you know what Whoot? You're wrong. The words, "Psychopath" and "Sociopath" are synomonous with one another. And that means that the words are interchangable and both have the same meaning. You don't believe me? Look it up. Webster.com. It's easy. You should be able to handle that.
And, your religious beliefs that compares and contrasts the Jews and Jesus with Baby Moses is ludicrous. That is your belief and therefore not fact. You believe God wanted the Jews to die through starvation rather than be kept alive under the Nazi regime and that's all fine and dandy. But that is your belief. It is not fact.
And anyway, God didn't deem and judge this baby to die. A woman did. And yes, she is a psychpath. Look up your definations before you start attempting to correct someone else. Makes you look like a fool, Whoot.
"God" didn't kill the Jews, nor allow them to die; it was one man, a single man and his followers who killed the Jewish people. And I reiterate - the Jewish people STARVED and DIED because Hitler WANTED them to starve so that they WOULD die. It's called MURDER and TORTURE, Whoot!
I am disgusted that you, Whoot!, would try to use the genocide of an entire people to abscond Dana of her murderous ways. But I guess you must be running out of ways to excuse the murder of her child and running out of ways to displace the blame.
I have to say though, now you're really reaching into the bucket of 'I can't believe you just said that'.
This is not about any religion, man, or race. Its about a woman who clearly murdered her baby.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociopath
Whoot? Get a life. You make no sense and really shouldn't even be allowed near a keyboard. I've read this thread and girl, you're in some serious need of help. Like one of these posters wrote, maybe it's time to reach out before you too make some kind of 'mistake'.
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source
di·a·lect /ˈdaɪəˌlɛkt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[dahy-uh-lekt] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. Linguistics. a variety of a language that is distinguished from other varieties of the same language by features of phonology, grammar, and vocabulary, and by its use by a group of speakers who are set off from others geographically or socially.
2. a provincial, rural, or socially distinct variety of a language that differs from the standard language, esp. when considered as substandard.
3. a special variety of a language: The literary dialect is usually taken as the standard language.
4. a language considered as one of a group that have a common ancestor: Persian, Latin, and English are Indo-European dialects.
5. jargon or cant.
Now, if you can, read the above definations of Dialect. No one has said you have a problem with your dialect. What you have a problem with is:
1)Your improper usage of words. You apparently do not know the definations of the majority of words that you choose. Such as your mistakes regarding "Sociopath" Vs "Psychopath". Now, you misuse the word "Dialect". You need to figure out the definations of the words you type here before you type them. This will lesson the perspective that you are a fool.
2)Your bullheaded need to put religion into everything. This just needs to stop. This isn't a religious thread. This isn't a crime regarding religion. This is a thread about murder. Not to mention, not every one has the same faith and belief as you do, thankfully.
3)Your crazy azz opinions that place blame everywhere other than where it is needed. Also, your bizarre rantings and ramblings about spiders showing you women in impoverished and war torn countries. I mean, what the heck is that about? Also the strange idea you have that adopted people are disturbed, that poverty level women in ND are being used by the goverment to breed children.. Wow. That stuff really needs to stop.
Follow these three simple pointers and I am sure you will be on the road to being a more normal, logical and rationally thinking human being.
Good Luck!
"relevance" to this discussion?
I in no way claim to be a psychologist, nor do I claim to be an expert on sociapaths, although some might choose to argue that point.
Keep going!
Here's my take on it.
As much as we like to blame the men for all the problems single mother have...we honestly can't.
Our system has too many problems for the blame to be placed upon the male simply because he donates the genetic material necessary to
produce life.
Take me for example. I supposedly have two kids. The first one I totally adore. The second one, I cant even be sure is really mine...nor is affordable unbiased testing available.
Yes you heard me...affordable and unbiased.
It's very much a conflict of interest that the same people who collect child support (offices filled with single mothers) are the same people who collect the genetic samples for the genetic testing.
This means it's impossible to get an untainted sample and even more impossible to prove whether or not the sample is tainted.
Further compounding this is the expense that one would incur by getting said testing done. This is especially true since our hospitals overcharge for everything.
Even further compounded by being forced to pay child support from the get go, yet still somehow manage to pay your own rent, buy your own food, cloth yourself, pay you car insurance, pay for the countless expenses that come up and still be able to have health insurance so you dont end up dead.
And...by the time the government gets done gutting the child support check...the mother only gets about 50$ of it.
In my situation (which is unique even compared to other single fathers) I have two kids as stated...one Im not sure is even mine.
The first kid was the result of my own naivety. I held the belief that birth control was fool proof. The truth is, birth control is for fools. It doesn't work. Especially when the mother is consistently overdosing on psychiatric medications.
I cant even count the number of times that she ended up in the emergency room.
Should I have left her...yes. She was extremely controlling, highly abusive, and had absolutely no respect for anyone.
That kid...I'm sure is mine...I love her. But with the way the North Dakota child welfare system works...I was completely unable to afford a custody battle.
So it's not like I walked out and left my baby girl hanging.
The second kid was a complete fiasco.
I was dating a girl who told me it was biologically impossible for her to get pregnant. She peer pressured me into sex. I really didn't want to, but hey even guys are not immune to peer pressure.
After much convincing and telling me not to worry because she couldn't get pregnant...I finally consented. You should be able to trust a friend of over 7 years right?...WRONG!!!
She turned out to also be highly abusive. Not to mention extremely controlling and suicidal. I guess the whole time we'd been friends I missed that part.
Then I find out she'd been sleeping around on me. The pregnancy was a complete surprise to me when I found out. I was devastated. I had been lied to. Even worse...I would never be believed by anyone.
So that was the second kid. I don't even know if he is mine and I likely wont know until he's an adult.
The point is this...women are not completely innocent in these matters. To blame only the man is not only ignorant, its incredibly sexist.
I was lied to, cheated on, at times even had large heavy objects thrown at me. Needless to say, I didn't defend myself very well, because I am one of those people who attracts abusive women.
It has taken me six years finally get my life back on track. They had so thoroughly ruined my life and my reputation that it has taken until now for people to finally see them for the terrible nightmares they are.
Just remember...it is not always the guy's fault. Half the time the guy does everything feasibly possible and end up getting only grief for it.
I look forward to when those kids grow up and turn their backs on their highly abusive mothers.
how can you sleep at night and not wonder what a little boy is going to do to deal with an abuser? you weren't tough and wise enough to deal with her, but you just run off and leave a little KID with her?
this is way nasty. you have it rough, but those little children YOU
got here, have it way worse. and YOU DID IT.
i do not agree that Dana's problem is ONLY HER problem, but that fact that you need to go to the hilt for your kids, that i agree with!
can your parents help you get custody of these kids and help you?
are your parents good people? leaving kids with crazy women is worse than that fool sports guy who got arrested for setting up dog fights! and he was way nasty. if you don't bother to get DNA testing etc. to really KNOW if that little boy is yours and help him....and he comes looking for you at the other end of a shot gun "when he is grown"....well guess what? i'm on the kid's side.
if you are not the father, you should be finding out who is! i think men should get 29 years in prison for setting up infants and leaving them. if there was a law like that, you may have thought twice about catting around with women who have questionalbe mentality. having sex with persons who are not "mentally capable" is also a crime, i think. it is in the same category as a drunk woman being incapacitated and not being able to make decent decisions. just what is wrong with these guys these days who just think they can "practice" on any woman, and then expect to get married to "miss pure".?
..if he isn't the father, then it isn't his responsibility to find out WHO is. It's the mothers. No one else. If she was catting around, letting any man have her, got pregnant, then it is HER responsibility to discover which of the milkshake made the bubble.
Again, blaming the men, even for things that they can't control.
I agree that he should go all the way for his children, and I think he basically stated that he has - regarding the child he KNOWS is his. As for the other questionable child, I believe it is up to both of them. And if he isn't the father, he has no rights to the child.
As for locking up men who leave the women they impregnant - again, that is silly and unrealistic, not to mention, incredibly sexist. If that is the case and your opinion, then we need to lock up ANY parent that leaves the child with the other parent. It's a two way street, buddy.
Are you so hell bent on hating men that you don't think about this realistically?
It's not like I just "walked out". I left abusive situations. This was the responsible thing to do. An abusive atmosphere is very bad for any child...whether that child is mine or not. Last thing I wanted was to make life more difficult for those children by having them surrounded by constant bickering and violence against men.
You could say I should have taken the children...but where would I be taking them exactly. They don't have abuse shelters for fathers and children, just for mothers and children. The system is in itself very very sexist. There isnt much a single father can do. Especially since men are so sexistly expected to just "tough it out" and "be a man".
And yes, those two women were mentally unstable. The problem is that they hide it very well in public situations as do most abusers.
Abusive people are very good at pretending to be normal people. So blaming the victim (even if the victim is male) is incredibly evil and incredibly closeminded.
Further, a custody battle would simply make the children's lives even more unstable than they already are. Did you even stop to think abut the kids feelings in this.
And by the way...I wasn't "catting around" if you had read my post you would have noticed that I don't "cat around". I prefer a monogamous relationship where I am not pressured to have sex. I much prefer abstinence. I'm absolutely sure that if I were a woman, I wuld not be getting this much grief for doing the right thing.
I would hate to think I live in a country that condones pressing criminal charges against people who have done nothing wrong. Especially when custody is automatically given to the woman. Men aren't automatically given custody, except, in the most extreme and rare of cases.
I would gladly have take custody of both kids. I'm sure there are many single fathers who also would. I cannot count the number of times I have seen grown men cry because their ex's do everything conceivable to meddle in their lives and prevent them from having contact with their children.
Many single fathers are often driven in hopeless depression and very rarely get the psychiatric therapy they need to deal with having their children ripped away from them by some vicious woman who wants nothing more than to see the man suffer for "doing this to her". In nearly every instance the woman refuses to accept the fact that it is just as much her fault as it is his.
But because women are automatically given custody, they get more pity and more sympathy than that poor guy who's out their bawling his eyes out.
Men also end up paying extraordinary amounts of money for child support (only about half of which is ever even seen by the mothers) and in many cases this money is wasted of frivolous things like alcohol or drugs.
There are single mothers out there who try really hard to do whats right and this woman was definitely not one of them. I am friends with quite a few single mothers who know every tiny embarrassing detail of my life and they completely agree with me. I did what I could. That's all that anyone can really do.
That woman, took the easy way out and now people are trying to make her into some sort of sick martyr.
A. Women are not incompetent morons. She knew exactly what she was doing when she killed that baby. It's not like there was a gun pointed at her head. She chose to MURDER her baby. That was her choice entirely. I highly doubt the father was on the phone with her saying..."DO IT!!!" And even if he was...she knows how to hang up and say "NO NO NO!!!".
B. Anyone who would knowingly and willingly kill a defenseless child deserves the DEATH PENALTY. She should get the chair for what she's done. It does not matter who you are. Man or Women, if you are the one watching a defenseless child and you kill that defenseless child. You deserve the DEATH PENALTY, not a shoulder to cry on.
The father of that poor child was also the father of Dana's other three children. If he were such a worthless loser. Why would she have had not one...but four children by him?
She also made a living taking care of other people's children. Do you really want this murder watching your children??? I know I don't.
First of all, reread this thread if you can - not everyone blames the father. I for one, have debated and nearly argued with those that do, as has several others in here. Tribal member has many good points as well which DO NOT place blame on the father.
I am so glad to have read your thoughts. Very well put.
these family problems need someone to speak up for ALL sides.
maybe this is what you could learn to do. family problems can be like car trouble, if there isn't enough oil in the engine, the engine blows....
perhaps you could consider that holding men responsible for families is not in the same category as man hating. if your boy is with someone who just hates men, you need to resue that kid. on the other hand, if you think they "hate" you just because they disagree with you, or don't cooperate....that's a different story.
why don't you get on the radio with this subject? or get a web site going? or write a book? or....do research....you've got a head start
in that area....sometimes life is like the odd grocery cart that wobbles....you get out a little oil or adjust ONE problem and it is a world of difference....it shapes up! when you write your book, if i know about it, i'd sure be interested in reading it.
I maintain the belief that when a parent is granted FULL custody. They are also granted FULL responsibility. That is the price you pay for REFUSING joint custody.
Also, checking up on the mothers sounds too much like stalking to me. People go to jail for that. Not that I would condone such a heinous and underhanded action anyways. People have a right to their privacy.
While not everyone will agree with this rationale, I believe it is justified. Especially so since it is rare that the parent who does not have custody will ever be permitted by the parent who has FULL custody, to see their child.
It is also rare that such events occur under amicable and healthy terms. Particularly in cases where one parent or the other is an abuser. Particularly when that abuse is traditionally condoned by gender discrimination.
As for "rescuing" the kid. Kidnapping is highly illegal and very much frowned upon in all 50 states and the various national territories. I highly doubt anyone could afford the hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees it would require to "rescue" the kid.
Not everything is as simple at putting on the proverbial "batcloak" and leaping out of the "batcave" to "rescue" the kid. If you had any idea how many abusive parents still have FULL custody even after countless fines and jail sentences, you would definitely not have bothered with that incredible statement.
Sometimes the best thing you can do for the kid, and often times the only thing you can do for the kid, is wait it out until they ask for you to take custody. As in the kid says...I want to live with my other parent and the court allows it. Or wait until the kid turns 18.
Until then your hands are legally tied unless you are at least upper middle class and have the money for a legal battle that will drain your sanity, the kid's sanity, and the other parent's sanity. Ultimately worsening the situation and making everyone miserable, especially the kid.
I would love to have FULL custody of both children. But...unfortunately this is not going to ever be a reality. I cannot afford a lawyer. Perhaps if I wasn't paying so much child support I could. Perhaps if I had parents who would actually pay for my college I could.
But will this ever be a reality, nope. My father was an abusive drunk and my mother always had her head in the sand. Worse yet, they have driven both of my brothers to near suicide. I came from a very broken home. But somehow I still manage to find the money to pay child support.
Not everyone has everything handed to them on a silver platter.
Dante, you are EXACTLY the person to get in there to bat for kids.
because you KNOW something about these things. there is a site
i just learned about....remember Robin Givens who married Mike
Tyson....super mean dude....she was in a pickle....now she runs a
website and wrote a book. don't go away. it may take me awhile to
find the web address. don't go away now.
i nearly flipped. like that is just right there just for you. you know about thses things. i know i got Robin's address in here someplace....don't go away now. i'm coming abck.
Robin@GraceWillLeadMeHome.com
that's her book
that pictures doesn't look so good, looks like she is still scared
of mike tysson! but she isn't. maybe you can get the book. it will be a step ahead in your new career! the kids of the nation, and YOUR kids are counting on you! maybe you need negotiation class.
to hear her interview with that actor, he sings such a fine song,he was that actor that had that funny t.v. wife, you can go to
www.tbn.org
click on "watch us" (top of page blue)
click on "archives" (left side column)
date: July 12, 2007 Robin Givens
she was a fatherless child.
Dante, there are loans and grants for you to go to school.
"And if anyone gives even a cup of cold water to one of these little ones because he is my disciple, I tell you the truth, he will certainly not lose his reward." Matthew 10:42
U said where was the sperm doner durin all this. where was the womans initaitive of being ready to take responsibilties of her actions before she indulged in sex. Where was the womans intiative of being ready to take responsibility of her actions when she brought a baby to the world. if she was a single mother with one child then a lil sense of compassion can be shown for her but she had three other children under bad circumstances and still carelessley brought another one in to the world to kill it, I dont show any sense of sorrow for her for they are homes she could have dumped the lil child in
don't you think everybody and their mother's uncle is taking the woman to task already? no need to look under any rocks to find those people. why is it that many people don't seem to find the same irate sense for the father who left the mother and the babies?
women don't get "a little bit pregnant"....maybe we should give this woman credit for NOT killing her baby by abortion, don't you think?
you are right, that it is very wrong for the modern culture to be so lax in having babies out of wedlock etc. but this is a scourge that has hit every town and county in this state. i'm glad you brought it up. that is one of the situations i've been trying to bring up. but the MEN are more than HALF of the problem. that's the part that people get skittish about and don't want to deal with. it is so much
easier to dump on the women, the mothers.
you are right about "bad circumstancs", but it is not right to say:
"carelessly brought another one (child) in to the world to kill it."
this is unsupported, and you could be in error by defaming this
woman by accusing her of things that are not supported. it is very
scarey for people to pronounce someone guilty of this and that long before any trial has even taken place.
HOW would anyone KNOW if these babies arrived because of the woman's initiative or because of the MAN's initiative? do you think she got all dressed up and LURED him into her man trap? if that is the case, was he such a weak boy he just couldn't say no? LOL or is she a fun, pretty woman who some jerk moved in on? do you or anyone know? people should not be "catting around". you are totally right.
this nd culture needs a real house cleaning.
north dakota is filled, at least in my area, with these "young" grandmothers who are toting around their daughters illegitamite kid. just met another one yesterday. at least i sure never heard about anyone getting married. that's old fashioned. duh! these girls are not "left at the altar", they are not even consider worth inviting to the altar. they just get dumped in the
ER to have their babies....at new Grandpa's expence. or the county.
then gradma, who didn't do such a hot job with her own kids, is "in charge of" the next generation too. duh!
as for the "homes she could have dumped the little child in"....have you seen some of them? bug my eyes out and run screaming for the hills! i've seen daycare workers etc. who are NOT FIT to be in charge of children....notice i did NOT say "take care of"....and specifically wrote "take charge of"....bossy prats who act like "angry bulls charging into a herd of young calves". give this mother credit for avoiding them at all costs. this mother probably loved her baby in spite of the sperm donor's evil and neglect and would never think of giving her baby away. the baby is said to have died of the FLU, not "murder".
in your world, do you confront "sperm donors" who have children and just evaporate off and leave those babies? or do you let them slide by, with "boys will be boys"? if 1/4th of the people interested in this subject would confront just ONE "sperm donor" how many troubles would be cleared up, but fast!? if on the college entrance the question would be "do you have children you have left in a heap someplace?" "if so, we don't want you, buster" how many empty seats in the college class would there be? high school class?
for every girl that doesn't finish her senior year there SHOULD BE
a "sperm donor" who is kicked right out of school too. wouldn't that be fair?
if sperm donors KNEW without a doubt they were forfeiting their OWN future because it is a real serious crime to give a baby life and then just leave it without a thought, they would think twice.
no college for mama, means no college for sperm donor.
no career for mama, means no career for sperm donor.
no money for mana, means no money for sperm donor.
no "life" for mama, means no "life" for sperm donor.
when THE FATHER helps the mother, then they have a life.
how can it be "a joke" to expect fairness in parenthood?
how is is "sad" the try to look around the mountain to see all sides?
you are a dim bulb.
your assumption is 180 degrees off.
when i was a kid, i remember a grown up telling me straight to my face in such a serious manner, that i didn't realise at the time,
"Your father is a very FAITHFUL man". NOW i can really appreciate that. at the time i really took my DAD for granted! he did this and he did that! he paid for this and he paid for that! he said things when i was a kid that keep coming to mind down the road YEARS later....and still keep me in good stead! THANK YOU DAD!
srsly, you are a dim bulb.
since i was in school is where i would see young women getting dumped and left with a kid etc. i took care of many kids who got left and dumped. i am trying to speak up for them collectively now.
srsly, you are a VERY dim bulb.
do you really think that a person who speaks up for women and children is "gay". homosexual people are known for NOT speaking up for the other half of the species or for children. they often only speak up for THEMSELVES, or a "partner" that looks like they are looking in the mirror at themselves.
srsly, you are a very dim bulb.
"abuse". i did get beat up by some fool who was robbing me, but not ever by my parents or someone i ever knew.
does that brighten up your dim bulb?
srsly, you really are a dim bulb. i hope you are NEVER on a jury or in any position to make judgements for people unless you clear up your thinking. i have NEVER said i "look up to" someone who is charged with leaving her baby etc. i have just said that the father of children who have these horrible things happen to them should be held accountable for HIS leaving the very same baby. also homosexuality is abnormal. and how ever you get "hate women" or men, out of anything i've said is beyond nuts.you need to take a class in logic or something. when you make acusations about people of things that you know nothing about,you could be taken to court for slander. when you think you "know" something and you really don't have the foggiest, but you insist you do, it is like throwing damaging things into people's lives. you need to quit that.
And though that commentor that called you names had the spelling issues of a 1st grader, one thing for certain is anything written about anyone on internet bulletin boards, etc. like this site for example, is not considered slander. You're an idiot for thinking so. Where did this user use your name? Does this user know your name? No, of course not. You're a "Dim" bulb, yourself, if you think you can threaten anyone with slander on these types of sites. Get a hold of yourself, and get a hold of some less prejudiced perspectives. God, I feel sorry for you. So sorry for you.
to: This Is To You, please do not swear. do not say you are "sorry" for me when you are not the slightest. that's a lie. to accuse someone of being homosexual when they are not is slander. it doesn't matter if that sort of stuff is written in the sand 4 thousand years ago, or on a modern "site" it is still slander. it is not relevant if someone knows the name or not. if a kid needs to get warned not to do that, better to be warned than ignored. i don't consider a warning a "threat".
where is the right to difference of opinion? why do some people get so angry when people say homosexuality is wrong? nobody says you can't have your opinion. homosexual behavior is as abnormal as clapping with two left hands. it is old at the hills. if you care to, you can read Genesis 18 or 19. those young and old guys got so vicious for the "new guy" that came through town that even if the angel smote them with blindness they still compulsively kept groping around the building to get "the fresh meat". you can teach your kids what you want, but if you boy comes home and gives you a clue some guy is "creepy" don't sacrifice your boy to it.
speaking of "wiped out", sodom and gomorah got wiped out because.....? Genesis 18-19 will tell you.
As for your little scripture, just because the bible says so, doesn't make it so. If that were the case, look into your little black book and find the scripture talking about women who have short hair. They're considered to be prostitutes and therefore, your God deems them unworthy. Women with short hair aren't to be suffered. I bet your momma has short hair. Is she a sinner? Probably not in that sense, no. But your bible says so. So it must be so.
You're so god darned pitiful. I hope that your God forgives you for you bigoted way of thinking. I'm willing to bet that you're gonna be in for the surprise of your life once your days have ended in this world and you don't see God sitting there, ready to give you your little kingdom in the sky.
No, you're messed up. You're prejudiced against homosexuality, find it wrong and evil according to your religion, and then you turn around, and try to find everyway possible to blame the murder of that baby on everything other than the admitted murderess herself. Your priorities are screwed up.
Like I said before, thankfully you are a minority in the way you think. If you weren't, I;m sure Hitler would have won, black and whites would still be segregated, and women would still be seen as a lesser gender and have no rights in today's world.
Hell, I might even pray a little tonight to your God in thanks for the people like yourself being a minority.
..and that you can sit there, typing away about the sin and evil of being gay yet you are so stubborn about dana deegan murdering her baby, placing blame everywhere other than where it should be. that person is right, your priorities are messed up. i know many gay people and i have not yet met a one who would molest, kill, or rape anyone yet there's dana, having sex with a man, just like your bible wants her to, and then she offs her kid. yeah, real non-sinner there.
tribal member - i'd like to be there at the court house. picket that b.s. and raise a lil awareness of REAL sin. 2sides is carrying on about how homosexuality is sinful yet he sure seems to like dana and doesn't seem to think what she did is all too wrong. she wasn't with a man, so killing her kid is alright. i don't get it. you kill a baby, that's alright. you have a little gay love and oh boy, you're in for hell. awfully weird.
you lie to yourself. he has to pay for 18 years for the decision HE made.
i am SO TIRED of seeing WOMEN held up as examples in the pillory
as though MEN have had nothing to do with it.
what this woman apparently did was wrong,
but worse WRONG are all these men who play deaf and dumb and stupid when the baby comes!!!!
Interesting perspective. Huh.
/sarcasm
parents don't "breakup or divorce" their children. that has nothing to do with this situation or any other situation like it. the PRIMARY question is always, "where is the FATHER?"
"where is the FATHER?" people who want to hide from that question are always a huge part of the problem.
in this day of DNA testing there is no room for hiding around behind the smoke screen of "she" might falsely accuse some guy of being the father, yada yada yada....these days the courts can KNOW if they want to. in this day and age, there is no excuse for the courts not hauling the father in also. right?
Makes me shake my head in shame for you that you think a man leaving a woman and thier baby is the same as Dana Deegan willfully wrapping her baby up in a suitcase and tossing the child out like trash. You're a sick person and I am sure glad you're not my dad.
At least only you and whoot seem to have this mindset. Thank god for that.
how would you know if this woman "willfully wrapping....and tossing out like trash." how was it that the father did the very same thing? he didn't even bother to "wrap" up the baby, did he? he just left the mother, 3 girls AND the baby. is that innocent?
the word husband comes from an old german word, i think, which means "house band". the man is supposed to be the band that goes around the house and keeps everything together. that is what the word means.
what kind of men go off and leave mothers and children? if 1000 of the women manage to claw and scratch their way up into survival, that still doesn't excuse the "house band" from snapping and leaving,or just slithering off and leaving. if it is hard for both the man and the woman to keep the house together, why is it apparently becoming such a common thought that the WOMAN is supposed to do everything by herself? if this is the common thought in the state of north dakota, then nd needs to stop advertizing its state as such a good place to raise children.
You have an unrealistic and illogicalmindset.
Lucky for the USA, divorce,breakups, and all of that doesn't equal out as murder.
grammaof2, why do you equate digging out the fathers and holding them responsibile for their part in these messes in any way is to "justify" what a mother may have done that is bad?
why do you apparently think tht expecting responsibility from fathers is "thinking of exuses" for mothers? why do you think it has taken a month for someone to admit, and you are one of the first! good for you, to admit in the state of nd, that it is a "problem" that the father ran out on them? thank you. neglected mothers across the state of nd owe you.
grammaof2, just as horrified as people are that a mother apparently ran out with her girls and left the baby to die, should they be just as horrified that the father ran off and left them all?
Two sides, I get what you are trying to say. You want fathers to be held accountable for leaving their kids, their wives. I understand that. But it's not realistic to equally blame Dana Deegan's sperm donor with what she did. It's just not the same. A man leaving a woman and their kids is not murder. It just isn't. I wish you could understand that, but I suppose you never will. I agree, the father SHOULD be held responsible IF HE KNEW she was going to kill thier child, but if he didn't? Than he's not guilty. As another poster at some point said, it's not unrealistic to expect ANY PARENT, be they man or woman, to care for their kids if the other parent is absent. It is not unreasonable to expect that a single man or a single woman to NOT KILL their child. That is the point SO MANY OF US ON THIS THREAD have tried to get through to you. Perhaps it's a lost cause. As someone else said, this will go to court, she will be sentenced, and life will move on. Nothing you say, I say, or anyone else in this thread says will make much of a difference. You are trying so hard to convince many of us to change our opinions and head out after Shannon Hale with words for pitchforks, but I won't. And many others wont.
Dana Deegan killed her child. It was wrong. There is nothing that makes it excusable. You want to hold the father guilty as well. Than go for it. But from what I have read, heard, and know personally about Dana Deegan, I hold her soley responsible and nothing YOU SAY TWOSIDES will change that in the least.
I am done reading this thread.
because, people, when the dude left deena, she wasnt relying on him to feed her, bathe her, clothe er, etc. she's a big girl and can take care of herself. she can make herself a sandwich if she's hungry. she can turn on a faucet or open a pop if she's thirsty. a newborn baby cant so these things.
like you point out, "its not unrealistic for ANY PARENT, be they man or woman, to care for their kids if the other parent is absent". well, buster, i guess the "other parent" went missing, and that father did not step up to the plate. does the court know he didn't go home see that baby, and run off and just leave it too?
the scarey part is that "this will go to court,she will be sentenced, and life will move on." same old, same old. that baby will have died in vain, because the fathers still won't be forced to step up to the plate. now WHY "won't" you head after the father "with pitchforks" when you are so willing to head after the mother? is he so "cute" he should get by? is he some sports "hero" who thinks he is untouchable for his misdeeds? is he big and mean so people are afraid of him? is he sly? is he the town drunk? is he so rich people don't want to cross him? is he so seemingly likable that people just naturally bale him out? WHY is it that it is very common to go after mothers and not fathers? i don't know either one of these people, but i have seen the erosion of north dakota culture. have you seen the upsurge in "babies on the county" because of guys who don't take fatherhood seriously?
do you know Shannon Hale? if you were in the same room with him would you have the guts to ask him anything or would you just let him slide? if i were in the same room with him, would he just cut to the chase and say: "get me a lawyer."?
riot, have i ever said this is "excusable"?
riot wrote: "You want to hold the father guilty as well. Than go for it." THANKS FOR THE ENCOURAGMENT!
parents are like a set of feet, two hands, a pair of eyes. if you don't have one with out the other, you are crippled and 1/2 blind. or in this baby's case: dead.
why is it murder for the mother to leave the baby behind,
but not murder for the father to leave the same baby behind?
i'm so glad to have finaly found someone with some answers to my ton of questions. thank you. do you know where shannon hale was during the time that baby was born and for the weeks that followed during the time that baby was dying? is this the only son that hale has? did he take very good care of the three daughters he had already? does he have other sons and daughters someplace else?
is this baby his only son and he couldn't even manage to check on that baby once after he was born? you got answers? i'm all ears. what do you think about depraved indifference?
since 1999 who has taken care of hale's 3 girls? has he taken care of his girls since 1999? or has dana deegan? if this woman left that baby on purpose, that is evil. is it EVIL for that father to have left that baby also? has dana deegan fed those three kids for the last 8 years or has Hale? or both? had he left this woman for her entire pregnancy to "deal with it"? if he knew she was pregnant, didn't he even ASK about what happened to the baby? if he had been supportive of her, would she have left the baby? would it be reasonable for her to think since she was perhaps taking on 3/4th of the responsibilities, that she could expect him to take on at least 1/4th? i do not want to be in any way "excusing" this woman for what she may have done. do you think she should be sitting in the hot seat by herself on this matter or could they manage to find another chair in the courthouse right next to her for shannon hale if not for murder, at least for depraved indifference? what percentage of kids in her county live in poverty?
if you read the articles, you will learn, which I think you need to, that Dana Deegan didn't let anyone know she was pregnant. If you read all the articles pertaining to this, you will learn that Shannon Hale was in the hospital and had been on bed rest. If you read the article, they aren't yet sure that Shannon Hale is EVEN THE FATHER of her baby. If you read the article, she had broken up WITH HIM prior to any of this.
Dana Deegan WILLFULLY MURDERED, not left, not forgot, MURDERED HER BABY WILLFULLY. Shannon Hale did not. Get your facts, buddy.
"deserve" it. Well, who decides who deserves compassion? You? This isn't really a direct frontal attack. Just a lapse in reasoning. It's whats wrong with our whole culture today. I am a Christian. It is wrong to do murder. Absolutely..is it wrong because I say so? No. It's wrong because it's God's law, there is nothing that can excuse murder and no one that can excuse murder ....but GOD. Not even pro life can excuse murder, even if she makes all the "right" choices. Sometimes what we think are the right choices are wrong in the long run, but it takes time and wisdom to see that. This woman may not be worthy of compassion. Are any of us? How does someone decide? Only God knows the heart. There is also murder by omission. Like the german populace in world war 2. They may not have contributed DIRECTLY to the murders of 11 million people...but they knew. And in knowing, they murdered also. As a man thinketh in his heart, so is he. By ommision of duty, by omission of filial responsibility, the father murdered as well. You may excuse him by his absence, except that his very absence is what condemns him. We murder when we slander another with bitter words that are untrue. Then we murder a person's character. Who here is not guilty of that. I made all the right choices. I thought....God will bless me if I am a strong woman, a woman who people depend on. I can control my future, it's all about choices. Well, sometimes, it's not. Sometimes other people make choices that leave you alone. Sometimes you miscarry and slide into a deep depression. I made all the right choices so why isn't life perfect? Sometimes your brother gets diagnosed with a terminal illness, people you love die, people you love go to war and are never the same and you finally realise that you don't have to "go it alone" to be a strong woman. Going it alone is the antithesis of strength, it shows a fear of dependance on others that speaks to a deep hurt. When you get over your fear of trusting people, even though it feels like a bad choice, you accept that life is imperfect,That you can't fix everything. That people are human and do terrible things and even the perfect people are going to come to a point in their life when they are going to have to let go of perfection and start living life in reality.
And the reality is this. If we were perfect, we would have had no need for a saviour. This woman's battle and this woman's ultimate judgement arent ours. We can put her in jail for a time, it's God's job to judge her eternity.
In Christ,
I swear you people. You and your gods. You and your religions.
This planet would be a much better place if there were no religions. Much better.
Religion has caused war, murder, genocide, and the list could go on and on.
You want your religion, go for it. But don't preach to the rest of that would rather use common sense, science, rationale.
Believe in your magics of God and Jesus, and all the superstition associated with it.
I would rather stay here, in the real world. I don't know if there is an afterlife. I don't even care, sometimes, if there is. But I do care about the life I am living. And the people living their lives here on this planet with me. And when one commits murder, then they should deal with our VERY human laws.
By they way, I've read these comments, too. And I don't think that prolife was saying that strong women are women who need no one. I don't think I even saw a phrase where she did say such a thing. Perhaps you ought to reread what she wrote, because she and a few others are the only ones who have made the most sense on this thread.
Clint out!
New Town Resident, i think there is "depraved indifference". WHERE do you find other articles on this subject? this is the only one i know about, oh, and another short clip someplace maybe.
how long was Hale in the hospital? did they do DNA testing to see who the father is?
aledgedly Degan "murdered" her baby, by "leaving" the baby.
the reason i hold on to this subject like a badger, is because it is SO COMMON for men to "leave" their babies that many in the culture don't even notice anymore. if fathers in general were held responsible for the lives of ALL their babies, life would be so different for a large segment of the population. Hale or whoever is the father of this baby needs to be held accountable. DNA tests comin' right up. why was Hale "resting" in the hospital when his wife had 4 kids to take care of? if Hale isn't the father, then like another person suggested, maybe they need to get out the "pitchforks" and go looking for some other dude. DNA testing comin' right up.
did you hear on the t.v. about the woman who was sentenced to spending time in the woods all alone because she had left 36 KITTENS out on their own!? well i think all the "alley cats" who leave HUMAN babies around need to be dealt with too. DNA testing comin' right up.
Christian Christina, thanks for writing. i read your stuff twice.
"but they knew"....BINGO!
Thanks.
And their are a TON of articles on this site ALONE, and that isn't mentioning ALL the others out there on the WEB.
You want to preach? At least preach with FACT.
As for you're idea of "depraved indifference", when I said there isn't such a charge, I mean there IS NO SUCH CHARGE in our legal courts. LOOK IT UP, you idiot.
Also, I don't blame the rest for ignoring you. I'm about to, too. You're too much a assuming fool to even bother talking about this with. I wish some of those other people who made some sense would start writing again. This is idiotic, the way you just hold on to this like a coon with some shiny object.
You want the father dealt with? According to the articles, we don't even know who the father is. What if the father never even knew Dana was pregnant? Did you know she was a very violent and mean person? No, Im sure you didn't. You just assume. And now, if the father didn't know she was pregnant, what are you gonna do next? Freak out about that? What if Dana is just a crazy person who is diabolical? What if she's the alley cat - a term you sure seem to like. What next?
Dna testing comin up. You're a dork. And your statements are silly.
Grow up, face the world, and be reasonable if you can.
Be a father to your kids and be thankful that you don't have a woman like Dana in your life.
#1. YOU are NOT the boss of me.
"depraved indifference" dates back to 1762 and there are 16,700 items on the google for anyone that may be interested. it gets run through the courts on a regular basis.
WHO is the idiot now, Tribal Member?
Tribal Member, do you "know" that Dana is "a very violent and mean person"? if you do, have you done anything to protect her children or anyone else?
"want the father dealt with?" YES, you got that right. that is what the DNA testing is for. so there is NO question about who the father is. if a man doesn't even bother to find out if a woman is pregnant he is worse that an alley cat. that is an insidious form of "depraved indifference".
as for the temper and nasty language, have i ever thought of you or anyone else as an "idiot", "fool", "coon", "dork" or anything else like it? NO!
you are right to be thankful not to have a woman like Dana, and i might add a man like Shannon Hale perhaps too, in my life. i HAVE HAD a child abuser in my life and that is why i HANG ON LIKE A RACOON when these subjects come up, and that is WHY i don't think people are decent when they don't ask questions, so they think they have an excuse to put their heads in the sand and act like they don't know anything, in these very serious cases, when they really do know, what is going on, like Christina pointed out about the germans who played deaf and dumb and stupid....and let things just slide on by.
it doesn't bother me if someone is ignoring me, what bothers me is when people are ignoring subjects they should be thinking about before they make judgements.
if this woman realy is "diabolical" then why would men or a man leave children with her? why kind of a man goes off and leaves a child, not to mention THREE of them, and the fourth, with a "diabolical" woman? i have not assumed that she is diabolical or crazy or violent or mean or any of those things. i don't know. those sorts of questions should be asked in a court....social services should have dealt with that long ago if there are problems like that. if she is any of those things, the father to those children should have DONE something years before the 4th came along.
Second, you didn't answer my question, did you?
What if Dana is the "alleycat"? What if she slept around, and never told the men or man she slept with that she was pregnant? What if they asked and she denied it?
There is so much more to this, and you are so black and white. You can't see your head from your.. well, Im sure you know what I mean.
You say you don't use nasty language. I recall reading up in this thread you calling someone a name as well. Huh, not so perfect are you?
You can't answer nothing. You just want to blame everyone but Dana. Go ahead. Live in your ridiculous world.
Nobody "assumes" that everyone from New Town is a native.
DNA tests answer all the questions of who and what. i brought that up ages ago. i'm glad you realize there is much more to this situation....that has been my major point for a very long time.
if the woman is catting around is that "poetic justic" for what men have been doing and getting by with for some decades now?getting by UNTIL DNA tests are coming up? if a woman is an "alley cat" is she just keeping company with what the men are doing?
TWO WRONGS DON'T MAKE A RIGHT, but why when the man does the wrong people don't seem to want to deal with that, but when a woman may have done the same thing, the men go into a riot. like in moslem countries....you see the "stone that woman" stuff....but when is the last time they stoned a man for adultery? is the man already dead in the stone pile or did they just somehow have a nasty little double standard and let the man slide? in some moselm areas they have a evil problem of KILLING a woman if she is the one who got RAPED! they kill HER because she is now damaged goods! crreeeepy crazy!
i hope i never forget the news picture of a pretty little 16 year old sister, body slumped over sideways on the WHITE couch because her muslim BROTHER had SHOT her to clean up the family name! crrrreeeeepy crazy. he and other "brothers" were so proud of themselves because they had CLEANED up the family names by getting RID of the damaged sisters.
crereeeeepy crazy! but that illogic doesn't seem to far off from america too does it?
nobody claims to be "perfect".
how do you "answer" things before asking questions? people that do that twist the justice system or they don't even solve the problems on the playground fairly.
"You just want to blame everyone but Dana.", is just plain nuts.
New Town Resident, are you a man? have you ever dealt with men who leave their babies? if you knew who "ANSWERS" is, would you have the guts to speak up for her? she lives in your area. would you go to the corner store and announce to the father of her children: "ENOUGH ALREADY....buster....go help that woman with those kids! the least you can do is fork over your "drinking" money, (like she pointed out) for your own kids!"
New Town Resident, i DARE you to go speak up for ONE mother who has been left with her kids. she is doing her best to fend for herself and for her kids, right? i DARE you.
even Dr. Phil on t.v. yesterday messed up. a 24 year old mother got left with 4 kids, the baby being months old and she was in serious depression and Dr. Phil, who often speaks right, really went after that woman for not "getting a job". DUH! i kept wondering did these crazy people think all FOUR of those little kids come here by themselves? DUH~ even DR. PHIL didn't manage to even give ONE THOUGHT to dragging that father in by the nap of the neck and sitting him right dead center ON THAT STAGE with that 24 year old young mother. she must have been overwhelmed.
when a mother has FOUR kids! she ALREADY has a job!
duh! dr. phil! duh! havn't seen dr. phil in a long time, but what a show that was.
i have never been in one of these families where the father runs off or slitthers off, but i have helped some of these mothers out at different times and that is where the question: "WHERE is the FATHER?" became obvious. if he's dead, he may have an excuse. but even at that many fathers PROVIDE for their wife and kids AFTER the father has even died! "alley cats" take a lesson.
I don't get you, but at least you are good for a laugh when the days getting hard at work.
LET DANA ROT LIKE SHE MADE HER KID ROT! I HOPE SHE SERVES A LIFETIME IN PRISION!
i can't imagine why anyone would think anything in this sad subject is a laughin' matter. if i had all the answers why would i ask questons? duh! i don't know DANA. how would i answer a question about her? why is it so important to you, and to a number of others to insist on playing deaf and dumb and stupid about "alley cats" leaving babies on the door step? why is it so important to you to cover for them? the WOMAN has the baby....the alley cat may are may not know if he had a baby or not.
he might not even have bothered to ask. he might not even have given it any thought.....that is the problem that has gotten to be very common. Women KNOW if they have a baby or not. i have no clue if the man knew anything about this woman, but the question is did he even bother to find out? did he even give her any thought? if he didn't, DNA tests etc. had better go and FIND him.
laughin' bizzo, what do you think of the 3rd post down from the top?
it says: "the reservation has high rates of domestic violence and alsoholism. If every woman on Fort Berthold who is beaten, cheated on and left to fend for herself and her children had thoughts and actions like Deegan, there would be many dead babies laying around the praries."
the writer of that post is NOT someone who has their head in the sand. are YOU strong enough to speak up for those mothers and children? if you think my posts are so "silly" should we have any confidence that YOU have interest in speaking up for those women and children?
when i was a kid watching the tv news with my Dad, there was some guy who got executed for something or other. the t.v. people drug out his poor sad mother....she was WITH her son, bad as he was, to the very end. that is what got me going asking the question of many social situations, WHERE IS THE FATHER? that is when it began to be obvious that many of these people who are in serious trouble....didn't have a father. the baby who died in the basket was in a serious way. he DIDN'T HAVE A FATHER....or at least one who would bother to come home and check on him that evening when his mother apparently followed the father's example, and left.
What if Dana was the "alleycat"? What if the man she slept with (and I am using your examples of theory and asking questions) used protection, asked her later if she was pregnant, and she denied it? What if that man happened to be a one night stand for her? What if she chose to hide it? What if she got away with hiding it? She's an obese woman, she could have done that. Especially if she wan't sleeping with man more than just the initial-concieving time? What if she WAS THE ALLEY CAT?
What are your thoughts on that?
What about all those poor men out there who have been used and abused by their women? What if they try and try to get their kids away from the mother and can't short of kidnapping their kids back? What if Dana is the monster that you are describing nearly every man who sleep with a woman as?
What if what if what if?
Get YOUR HEAD out of the sand, Mister. You obviously need to. But as it has been said before, this will go to trial, she will be sentenced and she will go to jail. And the majority of us will be happy about it. I am done responding to you. You just twist your words, and jump over points, and make excuses for the inexcusable. You're not worth anyone's time. Dana will get hers. That's all that I am concerned with. And I don't think I am alone in that thought.
Good luck to you. You care so much about this woman, and other women like her who kill their children. Do something about it. Don't sit here on the net typing away to people who don't care. Get active. Do something. You're not changing anything here. You aren not affecting anything here other than perhaps making us believe even firmer in our convictions that Dana need to be punished and that she is evil. And I know that is not what you're trying to do but you have done well at it. Thanks. Your illogical has made others even more convinced of Dana's guilt.
So do something about your beliefs because you're not doing anything here for someone so passionate about killer moms!
you owe me an appology for that snide remark...."someone so passionate about killer moms!"
how could you possibly be "more convinced of Dana's guilt" by anything i've said, before you have even heard ONE word from her trial? i have NEVER "excused" killing a baby. i do not believe in abortion either. but where there is a question of the life of a baby BOTH the parents need to be sitting on the hot seat answering to some very serious questions.
a woman generaly KNOWS if she is pregnant and has a baby. an "alley cat" may not know where he has left babies around the countryside, and he may not care much if at all. if the neibhbor guys "got out the pitchforks" he may think twice of course.
a man SHOULD make it his business to KNOW that he has NO children except with his wife....that would simplify many things wouldn't it?
if this woman is a "monster", people need to be asking themselves how long did they know she was a monster and WHY didn't they do anything to protect her other three kids long before the 4th one showed up? or was she doing about as well as anyone else, until the 4th one showed up and she snapped? why wasn't the man there to protect her? if she really were a "monster" why was some man toying with her anyway? if some guy is so irresponsible that he really doesn't even care if he impregnated a "monster" what is the world coming to? if she is a "monster" who left her with three girls already? i do agree that some judges seem to get a perverse enjoyment out of sending kids off to "crazy places".
north dakota social services needs to take account, just like the bridge people have gone into overdrive now that ONE bridge fell.
Apparently, you can't answer the question, either. You just want to dodge and play the blame game on ANYONE and Everything that you can with the exception of the actual murderer herself. Maybe you have a crush? I've read of people becoming infatuated with killers, it's an actual disorder. Maybe you're affected? Maybe you ought to get some help?
I, unlike you, have read the articles, ALL the articles, and have knowledge based on KNOWING the parties involved and I don't base anything I have said on an assumption with the exception of theorizing FOR YOUR SAKE!
Like I said, get active. Do something other than this. I am the only one paying any attention to you, and that's about to end as well. You want the last word on this thread? Makes no diff to me. It just seems that since you are so passionate about KILLER MOTHERS than you ought to become an activist regarding them. Seriously. Because here,you are making no difference.
I owe you NO apology. I will not offer one, either.
Apparently, you can't answer the question, either. You just want to dodge and play the blame game on ANYONE and Everything that you can with the exception of the actual murderer herself. Maybe you have a crush? I've read of people becoming infatuated with killers, it's an actual disorder. Maybe you're affected? Maybe you ought to get some help?
I, unlike you, have read the articles, ALL the articles, and have knowledge based on KNOWING the parties involved and I don't base anything I have said on an assumption with the exception of theorizing FOR YOUR SAKE!
Like I said, get active. Do something other than this. I am the only one paying any attention to you, and that's about to end as well. You want the last word on this thread? Makes no diff to me. It just seems that since you are so passionate about KILLER MOTHERS than you ought to become an activist regarding them. Seriously. Because here,you are making no difference.
I owe you NO apology. I will not offer one, either.
"dodge and blame game" is what people play when they want to ONLY look at the obvious and not lift the lid to see what is under the boil, or they don't want to see what CAUSED the boil.
if i HAD the answers why would i be asking the questions? DUH!
why would you reccommend to someone to "get active" when you think they are so wrong?
the suggestion of "a crush" "infatuation with killers" and all that nonsense is just plain stupid. it really makes me hope you NEVER are on a jury or in position to make decisions for other people.
if you had really read the articles and if they answered the other questions about what may have PRECIPITATED this evil etc, why didn't you simply answer the questions rather than just fling around stuff about "assumptions"? i only know about two articles and i read them both. neither one of them answered questions that came to mind. neither one of them has any thing about preventing this sort of stress from happening again. news basically just goes for the surface of things. news just tells about things after something flops. news reports are not known for digging in to find out WHY.
was shannon hale or dana deegan taking care of the three girls since 1999? or both of them? if he wasn't helping much with the 3 why would someone have confidence that he would help with the 4th? this does not "excuse" the mother for leaving the baby, but that obviously puts half the weight on the fathers shoulders too.
as for "getting some help", haven't i been asking enough questions to get "some help" on this subject already?
ain't much "help"coming though....which is, i've come to think is a very common way for people to deal with problems. just avoid questions that might be unpleasant. its a real DUH solution.
the sad situations goes something like: bad happens, don't ask questions, lop it all on one person, keep the heads in the sand, it happens again. pretend we don't know nothing. bad happens, don't ask questions....bad happens....pretend....heads in the sand. bad happens. nobody wants to even ask where the governor for that motor is. nobody wants to grab the handle that shuts that mean machine down.
it is stupid to say i am "passionate about KILLER MOMS".
my frame of refference comes from figuring out WHY this happened in the first place, perhaps that will avoid this from happening again. just lumping everything on the mother is a soft headed approach to this EVIL. it is the most simple way of dealing with this particular case, but that won't do anything much for cleaning up the mess in the culture that stresses mothers out etc will it?
Dealing with EVERY father out there who has a child, and expecting him to be #1 responsibile would clean up a huge amount of social stress in this country. obviously, that is NOT to excuse a woman from leaving her baby to die, but that wagon may have crashed when the other team member bolted and left her to pull that wagon on her own. if she wasn't pulling that wagon on her own she would have had him to be able to call and HELP her when she delivered that baby, wouldn't she?
have you ever driven a car 65 per and a tire blew? the entire front end feels like it is going out....if you are driving on gravel, it is even worse. blaming EVERYTHING on this mother, without investigating the father, is like blaming eveything in the the car wreck on the steering wheel and not even asking about the tire that blew to smitherines first.
apology or no to me isn't all that important, but if you are one of the old fuddgy duddies, or young fuddy duddies, who makes excuses for men,and blames everything on the women, you do owe and apology to the kid generation.
Uh, yeah, ok..
that makes sense. forgot people aren't responsible anymore for their own actions. thanks for reminding me. if i get in trouble ever, i will make sure my husband or father is answerable for my choices! great idea!
The weekend news told about the 53 year old man from Bismarck who was driving a truck for oil work the other side of Sidney, Montana and likely a tire blew and he was killed in a roll over.
are you just playing the dumb side advocate? everyone is responsible for their own choices, obviously, BUT fathers ARE responsible if they trot off and just leave mothers to fend for themselves. can i say this any more simply? why is it so common for other women to defend these men, but get so caustic with a woman who does the very same thing? they BOTH "left that baby".
i've come to wonder if it is because they are suspicious or know full well that their sons, brothers, or uncles or fathers have done the very same thing. they have LEFT babies around some neighborhood and wondered off. how many old women in the state are up on their high horses about what "welfare mothers" may not do well enough, but these same old women blind themselves from ever giving it thought that very likely that woman is "in trouble" BECAUSE of some old woman's son. that thought they will not look at.
i heard of one north dakota guy who had 19 kids around ....it seems unbelieable that the state didn't grab him by the throat like the media has done to whatshisname michael vick over DOG problems. vick deserves his trouble. but why not put a little attention on men who LEAVE BABIES? that is worse than killing dogs. discusting as that is.
smokey bearista, what do you think about publishing the DNA results and names of FATHERS who have left babies for social services or Grandpa to pay for, in the newspaper right along with bum checks and drunks in the court records? would your husband's name be on the list? anyone that you would know? would you be horrified or just "take it is stride"?
if you are cooking and poison the crew. it is your fault. etc. if you are just plain stupid, its your fault....or you may be brain damaged etc.
how is a million years did you get such a CONVOLUTED notion that you can blame your dad or husband for evrything stupid you do?
why is it so hard for some to see that raising children is a TWO person job? how could you take a flying leap from that to blaming men for when YOU are stupid or mean or what ever the problem is?
when men LEAVE children they HAVE a responsibility.
why any woman would want to defend a man leaving children, unless he is dead or SERIOULY disabled, is really wacko and beyond comprehending. i just can't see it.
"only God is awesome". it says that someplace in the Bible.
throwing that word around for every little ding dong thing that comes around the pike is a slap in the face to God.
to suggest it is my idea to blame men for every mess a woman gets into, is really to have seriouly missread anything i've written.
it is like you would get an F on the quizz if there were one.
it may not be worth asking, but what do you think of publishing the men's DNA reports for unclaimed babies at the welfare office? if the names of the fathers were published right along with bum checks and drunks what would that do to shape up some of the social service situations? or not?
do you think that this woman who is up for murder of that little baby had any sense at all of confidence that the father of that baby was going to see her and the kids through no matter what, or do you think she KNEW she was out on creek without a paddle? maybe she didn't even have a canoe?
if the woman left the baby and the baby died, why isn't it obvious they should ask where was the father? WHEN AND WHY did he LEAVE THE SAME BABY? 9 months before? 2 weeks before? did he come home, see the baby and walk right back out the door? did he know the baby existed? if not, why didn't he make it his business to FIND OUT!?
how many "unclaimed babies" are there is the state of ND? 2,000?
20,000? 200? social services should do some research and come up with some solutions rather than just sit there with this kind of information that they hide. what do you think about the guy who has 19 kids strewn around? i thought the women telling about him might be kidding....but she was not. "19 kids!" most unclaimed.
why isn't he locked up? how do you get from questions like that, to "blaming your dad and husband" when you mess up? the mothers are the ones who ALWAYS have the babies. that is a given.
God forbid if a mother has to raise her child on her own.
God forbid if a father has to raise his child on his own.
God forbid that people divorce.
God forbid people stay in unhappy relationships which usually cause more dysfunction for everyone involved in the long run when they DONT end.
God forbid people have personal responsibility.
God forbid people have personal responsibility.
We all have choices. Dana Deegan had a choice. The father of baby Moses had a choice. Both choose wrongly. However, Dana's choice proved to be a little more fatal, didn't it? You could say the father's choice was fatal as well, however, I am highly in doubt that he thought his baby was going to be murdered, either.
There is a difference between the two choices. If you can't see that, then you are living in delusion.
ditto.
It's a different shade of fatal, shall we say a darker shade of fatal?, when a mother purposefully starves her kid by walking out the door on him and letting him die, cold and alone and hungry. With intention.
Know what I mean?
who took care of the three daughters already for the eight years before this case came to court? the mother or the father? or both?
what is that fathers record for CARE for his other three children?
i don't know these people at all, but it is a really ugly modern culture that just takes forgranted that fathers are excused for leaving kids and no one calls them on it.
You must be abusive, too.
Birds of a feather flock together.
Either that, or you had a mean daddy. Did you have a mean daddy?
heh.
oh, and btw, it was the MOTHER who did what you just described. NOT the dad. Before you TRY to add input, READ the articles. You just look ignorant otherwise. Not to mention bitter.
I want to know if this is the first time she did this?
If I was the judge and jury I would bless her with a long overdue tubal ligation and sentence her to community service teaching young girls and BOYS the birds and the bees! This will include public speaking on birthcontrol and condoms, and parental rights and responsibilties. ALONG with the realities of what an ABORTION REALLY is. Some adults don't even know, so I think it is real darn important to get the children educated on the fact that they live in a society that CONDONES murder for MISTAKES made in fertility and breeding. So what exactly can we expect from abandoned mothers (alone and abandoned by the BOY) who know it is ok to have an abortion by societies standards? What can we expect our childrens behavior to express if they think you leave your newborn baby to die alone everyone wants you to get the death penalty, but in the next breath you can cut a hole in the babies skull and suck out its brains after you burned its lungs with salt to suffocate him if YOU PAY A DOCTOR money to do it legally? And never have to tell or face the music? And the men have no rights to the fetus because it is in the womans body and they can not force a woman who has been abandoned by her partner to birth and raise a child that is unwanted? This issue goes far beyond a woman just left her baby to die. It goes to morality and societal acceptances and norms. And we are giving children a contradicting response to a not so cut and dry dilemma.
cut-and-dried
1. if a decision or agreement is cut-and-dried, it is final and will not be changed. Although a deal has been agreed, it is not yet cut-and-dried.
2. if a subject, situation, or idea is cut-and-dried, it is clear and easy to understand. The human rights issue is by no means cut-and-dried.
i am NOT abusive.
you are not thinking straight. no, i did not have a mean daddy.
what could possibly be "bitter" about expecting BOTH the father and the mother to be responsibile for that baby? in this day and age of DNA that should not be a hard quest. they BOTH should sit there and answer to what has happened to this baby.
i DO NOT think this woman who left her baby is "innocent", but she should not be taking the fall for this matter all by herself. fathers are NOT excused for LEAVING children, any more than a mother is.
modern american, "hollywierd" culture has been excusing these absent fathers for so many years that people can't seem to think straight or fair about these matters. they just dump EVERYTHING on the mother which is CRAZY,shallow as a puddle thinking.
Abortion is evil. every bit as EVIL as leaving a kid out on a rock to die. i do not respect men or women who do not expect both the mother and the FATHER to be responsible for each of their children.
Whoot, you have said many interesting and thoughful things, but i do not agree that any abortion is ok.
killing babies is not nice.
SHE LIVED WITH THIS MURDER that SHE commited GUILTFREE FOR EIGHT YEARS! TALK FACTS, if you can. SHE IS a PSYCHOPATH! She carried on ACTING angry about WHOEVER could have done this to baby Moses never ONCE admitting to her crime. This was cold hearted murder and if she was never caught, she would have never admitted it. You know nothing and if anyone wants to contribute to this, you ought to learn your facts first. I am sick of reading OPINIONS based on OPINIONS. At least make an opinion based on fact. Is that possible or are you just purely ignornant?
As for the father, their relationship had ended before she even had the baby. And ACCORDING TO EARLIER ARTICLES (which you could read if you just took the time rather than blather on here nonsensically) he never knew she was pregnant and many women have hidden pregnanices. That is not a new thing. Just as many women have faked pregnancies. That is not a new thing either.
So sick of you.
And thought alot~ I don't think abortion is ok either. I would never commit one. I have four beautiful well behaved children that I would never allow to do it either. I would take their children into my home before I would let that happen.What we need is responsible parental planning and people who can use their heads and see that children REQUIRE a mother to supply a father for them. EVERYONE knows that. We need our children to see life as a gift, and see that a mother and father that want them is a gift. And not a bunch of people running around saying women can do it all and we don't need men? Who came up with that idea? We need our boys to know that if you have unprotected sex with a girl she could be pregnant. Umm, yeah, he knew he nutted in her before he took off. You are NOT going to convince me otherwise.
My husband is disgusted that I have these views. But you know what? It is reality. It is facts. The fact is at the time this murder occured it was LEGAL to have a partial birth abortion. And the fact is I see what Dana did as being more humane than a PBA. Honestly. The facts of life my dear. Sad but True.
you may be looking at this and other cases like this with one blind eye.
Deserves a repost:
Whoot wrote:
What we need is responsible parental planning and people who can use their heads and see that children REQUIRE a mother to supply a father for them. EVERYONE knows that. We need our children to see life as a gift, and see that a mother and father that want them is a gift. And not a bunch of people running around saying women can do it all and we don't need men? Who came up with that idea? We need our boys to know that if you have unprotected sex with a girl she could be pregnant. Umm, yeah, he knew he nutted in her before he took off. You are NOT going to convince me otherwise.
i guess it could help with population control.
She didn't suffocate him with her hands, or crush his skull or mutilate him or delimb him.
I am NOT saying Dana is right either, but she is NOT alone in misdeeds towards babies in the state of North Dakota.
Maybe all the legislature members who voted in abortion could sit by Dana Deegan too. Now there is another case in Garison again, I think I heard on the news, where a mother is in trouble for killing her unborn baby. Where is the Father? Here we go again.