Is Speaking in Tongues necessary for Salvation? | Bismarck Mandan KXNet.com North Dakota News Talk Forums

Posted By Luke7_35

Posted On: Apr 23 2007 2:39AM

PART 1)
I believe you cannot lay claim to having received the Holy Spirit without the outward sign of Speaking in tongues. The first reason I say this is found in Mark chapter 16. From verse 15 to 20 Jesus is outlining the signs that would follow believers. This passage of scripture alone cannot establish the need for speaking in Tongues but in conjunction with the entire scriptural body this becomes very clear.
Here there are 5 signs mentioned. The argument that one will speak in tongues and another will take up serpents does not carry any weight because the Bible is written to the individual and EVERY CHRISTIAN will display these attributes. The key is, understanding what is meant by each sign and how they were evident in the early church.

Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
Mar 16:20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

Looking in the word of God, especially New Testament lets see the signs following doctrine in action.

1) casting out devils

Act 16:17 The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which show unto us the way of salvation.
Act 16:18 And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.

Act 19:13 Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth.

1Jo 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.


2) Speaking in new tongues
A spiritual gift mentioned in Act_10:44-46; Act_11:15; Act_19:6; Mar_16:17, and described in Act_2:1-13 and at length in 1 Cor 12 through 14, especially chapter 14. In fact, 1 Cor 14 contains such a full and clear account that this passage is basic. The speaker in a tongue addressed God (1Co_14:2, 1Co_14:28) in prayer (1Co_14:14), principally in the prayer of thanksgiving (1Co_14:15-17). The words so uttered were incomprehensible to the congregation (1Co_14:2, 1Co_14:5, 1Co_14:9, etc.), and even to the speaker himself (1Co_14:14). Edification, indeed, was gained by the speaker (1Co_14:4), but this was the edification of emotional experience only (1Co_14:14). The words were spoken “in the spirit” (1Co_14:2); i.e. the ordinary faculties were suspended and the divine, specifically Christian, element in the man took control, so that a condition of ecstasy was produced. This immediate (mystical) contact with the divine enabled the utterance of “mysteries” (1Co_14:2) - things hidden from the ordinary human understanding (see MYSTERY). In order to make the utterances comprehensible to the congregation, the services of an “interpreter” were needed. Such a man was one who had received from God a special gift as extraordinary as the gifts of miracles, healings, or the tongues themselves (1Co_12:10, 1Co_12:30); i.e. the ability to interpret did not rest at all on natural knowledge, and acquisition of it might be given in answer to prayer (1Co_14:13). Those who had this gift were known, and Paul allowed the public exercise of “tongues” only when one of the interpreters was present (1Co_14:28). As the presence of an interpreter was determined before anyone spoke, and as there was to be only one interpreter for the “two or three” speakers (1Co_14:28), any interpreter must have been competent to explain any tongue. But different interpreters did not always agree (1Co_14:26), whence the limitation to one.

3) They shall take up serpents
Only one Biblical case of a serpent or viper confronting one of the Apostles in the NT Act_28:3-7 Certainly there were no acts of "Taking up" serpents. Some translations translate Mark 16:18 {they will pick up snakes in their hands} ISV This flies in the face of verses like; Mat_4:7 Perhaps a better application can be found by exploring the Acts of the Apostles through whom these signs would be evident.

Mat 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
Mat 4:7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

Luk 10:17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.
Luk 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
Luk 10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.

Psa 140:3 They have sharpened their tongues like a serpent; adders' poison is under their lips. Selah.
Psa 140:4 Keep me, O LORD, from the hands of the wicked; preserve me from the violent man; who have purposed to overthrow my goings.

Firstly breaking the term up in the Greek can be helpfull.
A) The Act { taking up} I have highlighted the translation I believe is supported by evidentiary substance in the Bible
αἴρω
airo¯
ah'ee-ro
A primary verb; to lift; by implication to take up or away; figuratively to raise (the voice), keep in suspense (the mind); specifically to sail away (that is, weigh anchor); by Hebraism (compare [H5375]) to expiate sin: - away with, bear (up), carry, lift up, loose, make to doubt, put away, remove, take (away, up).

Joh_10:24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt?( αἴρω airo ) If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.

Mat 21:21 Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed,( αἴρω airo ) and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done.

Luk 17:12 And as he entered into a certain village, there met him ten men that were lepers, which stood afar off:
Luk 17:13 And they lifted up their voices, and said, Jesus, Master, have mercy on us.

Act 4:24 And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou art God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is:

Act 21:36

Posted By Luke7_35

Posted On: Apr 23 2007 2:42AM

PART 3)

An interesting application of the word “Take up” is summarized briefly below:
Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

Gen 3:13 And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.

Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever:
Gen 3:23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
Gen 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
αἴρω airo¯ ah'ee-ro: To Expiate and Atone for Sin:

The Contract that Man (Adam) entered into through the original sin is Expired and Atoned for, upon receiving forgiveness of sins through the receiving of the Holy Spirit. Standing between Man and Communion with God is The Flaming Sword i.e. The Holy Spirit and the Word of God

Over the next 3 months I will, each week put forward an argument that shows that speaking in tongues is ABSOLUTELY VITAL for SALVATION.

Note: It MUST be said that tongues is only a sign. Jesus is the only name through which one may find salvation. To over state the role of Tongues making tongues into the “be all and all” would be a HUGE mistake. We need to keep a sense of perspective. The only reason I emphasize this issue is because many today say that it (tongues) is unnecessary for salvation and in so doing undermine the victory of Jesus on the cross. Leaving many not filled with the Holy Spirit and when Jesus returns; and many saying I have done this and that in your name and Jesus responding “I never Knew you”.

God Bless

Luke 7:35

Posted By Luke7_35

Posted On: Apr 23 2007 6:17AM

Heb 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. (What promise?) Compare to Isa_28:9-12
Heb 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
Heb 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, (WE ENTER INTO A REST UPON BELIEF) as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Heb 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. (Grace is ceasing from works)
Heb 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. (QUESTION: How do we know when we enter into THE REST?)

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Talk about ceasing from our own works! Compare to Eph_2:8-9
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
If entry into God's Rest is mandatory for salvation Heb_4:11 What did Jesus say about it?

Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you,(QUESTION: How do we take Jesus yoke upon us? ANSWER: Joh 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.) and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. Unsure that Jesus was talking about Sabbath continue to read the next 8 verses Mat_12:1-8

Jer 6:16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths,(Original Doctrine) where is the good way(Gospel), and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.
Jer 6:17 Also I set watchmen over you, saying, Hearken to the sound of the trumpet. But they said, We will not hearken.

1Co 14:8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?

Don't ignore the sound of the Trumpet!!!!

Posted By Luke7_35

Posted On: Apr 23 2007 6:54AM

WHAT ABOUT BEING BORN AGAIN???


Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Why Water & Spirit??

Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

This is where it gets interesting....

Joh 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

The literal Translation reads like so....

Joh 3:8 "The Spirit breathes where He desires, and you hear His voice, _but_ you do not know from where He comes and where He goes. In this manner [or, Like this] is every [one] having been born from the Spirit."
WIND = SPIRIT VOICE is from the Greek word Phone and MUST be Vocal.

Joh 3:8 The ( the Holy spirit:) (breathes )where it listeth, and thou hearest the (saying or language:) thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Phone = Sound = Voice = Tongues

G5456
φωνή
pho¯ne¯
fo-nay'
Probably akin to G5316 through the idea of disclosure; a tone (articulate, bestial or artificial); by implication an address (for any purpose), saying or language: - noise, sound, voice.

Appears 140 times in NT all in reference to Vocal sound. {Translated 7 times as Sound}.

1) Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
2) Joh 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
3) 1Co 14:7 And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?
4) 1Co 14:8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?
5) Rev 1:15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.
6) Rev 9:9 And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.
7) Rev 18:22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;

Note: Of the 6 other times "phone" is used 4 spoke of trumpets. Trumpets are a warning and a sign.

Pneuma = Wind = Spirit

πνεῦμα pneuma pnyoo'-mah From G4154; a current of air, that is, breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively a spirit, that is, (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, daemon, or (divine) God, Christ’s spirit, the Holy spirit: - ghost, life, spirit (-ual, -ually), mind. Compare G5590.
TAKE SPECIAL NOTE: pneuma Appears 386 times in NT, all Translated "Holy Spirit". 1 Exception John 3:8

Conclusion: EVERYONE who is born again will experience an accompanying "phone" sound.

Read verse 8 in your own version no matter how you word it Jesus is saying something important. You will hear a sound.

God Bless
Luke 7:35

Posted By MadManMe

Posted On: Apr 23 2007 10:23AM

By the way Luke, I see many passages from the bible that you have pasted. You say speaking in tongues is needed. You do this in church correct? If so why are you doing it? Are you doing it for someone? If you are doing it in public you are clearly going against what God has asked of his flock.
Tsk Tsk preacher person you have failed to read your Bible and understand.

Posted By Sissy

Posted On: Apr 23 2007 12:48PM

Luke 7:35

Judgement.

Posted By Luke7_35

Posted On: Apr 24 2007 2:36AM

Hi there Blmccar I have addressed most of your questions below……

blmccar) Actually when ever people babbled in the Bible it was a curse (read about the tower of Babel).

Genesis 11: 1-2, 7 Come, let Us go down and there confuse their language, so that they do not understand one another's speech.

Luke) WRONG! So many things are wrong with this statement I don’t even know where to start. Have you read the book of ACTS at all? (I say this respectfully)

Luke) To answer fully I will have to devote an entire post just to this “Tower of Babel story” as it is rather complex. Be patient please. But for now lets continue.

blmccar) let’s look at what the Bible really says: Luke) Yes lets!!

blmccar) Acts 2: 5-8 Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven. 6When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard them speaking in his own language. Utterly amazed, they asked: "Are not all these men who are speaking Galileans? Then how is it that each of us hears them in his own native language?

Luke) Acts 2: 5-8 Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven. (Actually Just 17 Nations) 6When they heard this sound, (Speaking in Tongues) a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one (Meaning each and EVERY one of the 17 nationalities) heard them (The 120 disciples) speaking in his own language Each and EVERY one of the 17 nationalities). Utterly amazed, they asked: "Are not all these men who are speaking Galileans? Then how is it that each of us (again EACH AND EVERY ONE of US) hears them (the 120 disciples) in his own native language?

Luke) What’s my point? Every one of the 120 tongues speakers spoke every one of the 17 dialects. You can hardly call that communication; God means what he says and says what he means. Picture the setting 120 people speaking in tongues in a cosmopolitan place. If this same event happened now during the general assembly of the UN I am sure the account would be similar. To deduce from Acts two that tongues was a type of communication just doesn’t measure up.

Luke) Another question is why did Peter then get up and speak to the crowd explaining what had happened? You’re interpretation of the events of the day of Pentecost fly’s in the face of 1st Corinth 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.


Blmccar) In the Bible, when the followers of Jesus spoke in tongues, they were speaking to crowds of people made up of those who spoke different languages. As the disciples spoke, each heard them in their own language. This is speaking in tongues.
Luke) Not in the cases of Acts chapters 8, 9, 10 and 19. Again to make this statement you don’t know much about the Bible account. Either you are fairly new to the things of God or you are very indoctrinated and are blind to anything other than what your leaders tell you.

I’m not intending to sound arrogant but it really is obvious that Acts 2 was only one of many instances of people receiving the Holy Spirit and Speaking in tongues. Read the entire book of Acts and pray about what you are reading, would be my advice.

blmccar) If nobody can understand what you are saying, you a babbling. If you can do what the disciples did, I would be amazed. Anything else is unbiblical.

Luke) 1Co 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. I have seen with my eyes miracles, healing, laid hands on many, deaf healed, lame walk etc etc. Yes God confirms his word with signs following.

blmccar) To be saved, you must have the Seal of God which is the Holy Spirit.

Luke) Lets have a close look at the letter to the Ephesians. Eph 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus: Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
Eph 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed (to stamp (with a signet or private mark; for security or preservation) with that Holy Spirit of promise,
Question: At what point did they (the Ephesians) Trust, Believe and then be SEALED with the Holy Spirit?
Answer: Act 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
Act 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
Act 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Act 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
Act 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Act 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
Act 19:7 And all the men were about twelve.

Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest (down payment, engagement ring) of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
2Co 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
Pretty clear that when Paul reminded the Ephesians about the day they BELIEVED and WERE SEALED that he was referring to that day in Acts 19.

God Bless

Luke7:35