i'm sorry about your situation,mayb everyone will have some trouble in life,but we will still strike it and live well afer it.Wish you good luck and live happily.

You know what?  I am going to have him try that.  He is breathing fine now.  Might do the trick.  I wish I had some of the steroids the doc in Minneapolis put him on for a week.  He was great and so much better that week but I know they are not so good for you but.....a person can dream.... 

Besides he might grow hulk muscles then and become a super hero!!  :o)

Thanks Tax

Well, where to begin.  Has been a very event filled time for me.  First, my husband is still having issues.  He has a ddep tissue injury on the side of the broken ribs.  We think it came from struggling to get up and down from the couch in a laying down position.  (not sure though)  Ribs are healing but it seems each day he has a new ouch someplace.  sometimes I just have to tune out.  It is hard to live with someone who never feels well.  But, onward we march.

We drove to FArgo to see son and his family.  I don't usually drive much cause my hubby is a terrible back seat driver.  Because of his meds he is not driving right now so I did drive but we arrived with me sort of upset with the "instructions" I received the entire way.  Was fun to see the kids for sure.  Little 3 yr old is such a great little boy.  He is so good but fun at the same time.  He is so compassionate to Grandpa cause he has ouches.  It is funny to watch him be a little nurse.  Giving his medicine kisses to make it better.  Too cute!  The girls are good too.  One is 14 and one is 9.  Just started school.  Our son is having a bit of a struggle getting into the swing of work.  He sure hated to have to go in on Tuesday morning but the day does arrive where you have to make a living so there he is.  He is taking a position out in North Carolina.  they are  not moving till Christmas or maybe spring so...we will see how he likes the job first. 

While we were there someone threw a brick through the window of the Yokon and stole our daughter in laws purse.  She never usually leaves it in the car but just forgot to go out and get it the night before.  About $1600. damage to the car and loss of an IPOD and gift cards and cash.  That is not replacable from insurance so she is just out the money I guess.  With the deductable, it is a loss they did not need for sure.  We decided it is young boys because the purse itself was one she got from our son for Christmas.  It was a nice coach bag and worth some money on ebay.  Oh well, done is done.

This morning we got a call from my step sister.  My step dad has been ill for about 3 weeks and I have made several trips to see him thinking it was his last breaths but he always rallied and was better again.  Well, last night about 1:00 he passed away.  I will miss him so much.  He was a delight of a man.  He had the most Godly outlook on life.  He outlived 3 wives, of which my Mother was the last.  He was 85.  Funeral is on Monday in Harvey ND.  I am looking forward to seeing all my step family who really are not steps.  I love them like birth family.  None of them live close except for one in Bismarck.  Dear wonderful folks.

Well, got a ton of stuff to do so better scury along.  Shoppe sad to hear you lost your Aunt.  Have been watching the storm over in NC as my daughter in law is wondering if that will be something they will need to worry about if they move.  I hope you boys will be ok. 

Later to you all,

Curly 

I am sorry to hear about your aunt Shoppe but she lived a full life :)  Hope the boys are ok!

So I am looking for a car... I went thru a lil too deep of water n killed the engine. Its dried out but it will only go 25 mph before the engine starts coughing up a catalytic converter. I needed a new one anyway.. something a lil smaller, good on gas and reliable. My husband is headed to school in a week n half so I can use his car to go back n forth. He will be home on the weekends. When he does work we take him to work then I drive to work.. its about an hr n 10 min trip in the morning n then at nite. Least we have to do this just one more day. I wouldnt be able to do it every day!!

Not much else going on here. I like it that way! Too tired to get caught up in anything else ;)

ps... my two sons in Wilmington, NC are in the path of the storm... Pray for their safety...... thanks.....

You always see Wrightsville Beach on the weather channel as they track the storms,  thats 10 minutes from where they live....

Taxi... thanks bundles for asking... Yes, that was a funny but noisey weekend....  It only disturbed me.... Hubby,  daughter and her two precious ones went right to sleep....its only  shoppegirl that can't sleep with any noise..... don't know why I didn't put my ear plugs in..... Whats wrong with me?   LOL

Dearest Aunt Mary just passed away noon yesterday (on my daughters birthday)... 95 yrs young,  much loved,  10 kids,  7 brothers and sisters of which my mom at 80 is the second oldest to mary....

Mary laughted a  lot, not a cackle but a solid belly laugh.. We all just thought she was the best.  Never a unkind word,  never gossiped, went to church weekly, loved flowers and dogs.....    Terrific woman.

She said last week while in the hospital bed surrounded by at least 5 of her kids that if she left "here" she would be with Jesus..

So,  Aunt Mary is doing just fine today.... its the survivors that are mourning..

One sister and I are going to WVA for the night , and the funeral......

~~~~

curly, how is hubby doing? 

sneakycat?  Heard you got a new job... congrats.....

all is well in Fayette City, PA........

Curly and Shoppe,

We haven't had any updates on your family members.

Curly, is you hubby feeling better?  Has the pain subsided?  How are you doing? 

Shoppe, I guess Mike is recovering?  And your aunt out of the hospital?  We were at Indian Hills Resort, which is camp ground nestled in the hills.  Quiet hours are from 10pm until 7 am.  I was thinking about you and your noisy camping neighbors!!! 

I actually did recieve a Harley for free (well 10 bucks) so I figure I would use that as an example,,,,,,,and no you cannot have it. lol

The bible says salvation is a gift from God.

So lets say I give you a gift, lets say a nice new Harley Davidson.

I simple give you this motorcycle as a gift, but then I turn around and require you to make the payments?

Would that be considered a gift then?

Romans 6:23 (King James Version)

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

On the same token in order for a gift to be a gift it has to be recieved. I cannot give you a new Harley Davidson if you do not accept it or you do not recieve it.

So it is with Eternal Life.

Marilyn and I have talked.   Neither of us are haters.   We do care about our family, our country,  and we will fight against anyone or anything that trys to harm that..

Its not hate.   We love everyone,  HATE THE issues......

Fighting against evil is a good thing to do..

Morning.

God will judge those that do not believe in Jesus.   He may have to  Judge differently the ones that have not even heard of Jesus or the Bible... God will decide on that.

But those who know about Jesus, and have read that God said he was the Son of God,  and REJECT... those will be judged also....

Either the bible is totally true, or totally false... no inbetween. 

I believe you must be saved, believe in Gods Son , he sinless death, his burial, his resurrection,  know we sin,  repent,  turn from sinning (as best we are able)......... Judgement, then Heaven for those covered by the Blood.

I am a sinner,  I am covered.   Why?   Because I asked Jesus into my life in 1973.. Does that make one perfect?   Of course not....

But we must try to be good and do good.

Being the best person in the world doesn't give you a key to heaven.

Jesus holds the key.

Self-Rightousness has been, and always will be the down fall of all religions, and political systems.

I have tried, many times, to point out that we can rationalize our point of view, way beyond the point of silliness. 

Instead of thinking we are always right,  we should consider that we are almost always wrong.  But that might bring about peace, we wouldnt want that.

The Apostle Paul was a pretty nice guy, yet he said his rightousness was like filthy rags.......why did he say that?

The dude wrote most of the New Testament, why did he feel his good deeds where filthy?

Because all have sinned and we cannot obtain salvation by being good.

All other religions base their salvation on doing "good works".

If people could earn salvation or eternal life be themselves, then Jesus Christ suffered and died for nothing.

WW... be nice.  :)

Yes, Dobie and Theresa.   Either the bible tells us how to go to heaven, or we should just ignore it.   its not both ways.  You cannot serve another God and expect to go to Heaven.

Now, we should be good, we need to be good,   BUT BEING GOOD WILL NOT SAVE YOU, THE BLOOD OF JESUS WILL SAY YOU,  nothing more.

Theresa.... I know you know this.   

God is the final judge, but he has already said what we must do, its not a secret. 

this is why it is so important for us to let people know about Jesus.   Its the difference between life and death.

Theresa,  I am the one you should be condeming.. Marilyn loves everyone and is very nice.....

"....[the] soul of a woman was created below."

Led Zeppelin  Led Zeppelin: Dazed and Confused.

It is written.....  

Here is one, I am busy, but there is more

Posted By Marilyn

ID#: 23777

Posted On: Aug 15 2010 7:40PM

---

I've heard the radical muslims talk about those scriptures, if that's what they're called, and then I've heard the moderate muslims talk about them. In any case, the koran does command the killing of unbelievers. The over zealous muslims are the people that committed the 9/11 tragedy. It's a shame that all muslims seem to look guilty because of the actions of a few.

The actions of a few radicals are deadly, which makes a greater impact on how people view Islam. I absolutely understand the feelings of negativity towards this religion. I think the reason so many people are still against this religion is because the radical muslims are still actively working at killing unbelievers in other countries. It's not like it all stopped after 9/11. It still goes on, on a daily basis in other countries and there's been attempts here as wel, just recently in NYC with that failed car bomb. They hate our way of life and will do anything to protest it, and impact it, including killing nonbelievers, women, and children. They have no respect for life and FREEDOM OF RELIGION. The radicals want us to think and live their way.

How could anybody look at radical islam, and the bloody trail they leave behind them, and not have bad feelings? They won't think twice about ending your life...or my life. This is why so many people, not just Americans either, look at all muslims with abit of mistrust. It's a shame that a few deadly, hateful, dishonest and immoral people make such a negative impact on so many lives.

Theresa, I agree with you, I believe that anyone, no matter what their religious beliefs are, can go to heaven.  It just depends on how they live their lives.  And, I want to stress the point that it would be very condescending, to say the least, for a person of ANY religion to tell another that they won't be eligible for heaven unless they believe the same way they do.  To me it would be a down right insult.  I also agree that this is a non-winable argument. (unfortunately).

"Do unto others" should be the universal commandment."

So Shoppe, I guess, then, that you don't believe any Muslims go to heaven, at least if they are practicing the religion of Islam.  Am I right?  And if I am right, I guess that would apply also to Jews, Buddhists, or anybody else who is non-Christian?

In other words, no matter how good a person is throughout their life time, if that person is not a Christian they have no chance of going to heaven?

Absolutely.   You need to believe in Jesus the Son of the Living God , repent, turn from your wicked ways, and you shall be saved...

I think you knew that would be my answer.  

Shoppe says;  "Do I want them all to get saved and go to heaven?"

How do you propose this would happen?  In other words, would they have to convert to Christianity in order to get saved?

I havent read the bible much, but I was wondering if there are any passages about your imaginary god slaughtering the masses, causing suffering, killing childern, kicking dogs, destoying cities, starting plagues, burning people, and deliberatly causing other insundry miseries.

If you count the peace and love passages, and then the death and destruction passages, who wins?

I just have problems with most muslims.   Sorry.   But I feel that if given the choice,  99% would side with the extreme muslims and against  us americans.  I mean if it were life or death,   Americans would lose...

Do I want them all to get saved and go to heaven... Sure why not?   I don't want anyone to go to hell if they can help it...

You're welcome...signed your retired AF buddy....

Thanks Flaps!

Amen.

I am guilty of loving less than I really should.    Its one of my very few faults.. :)

I have to say , actually use the words,  I love obama,  I love Muslims,  but I HATE THEIR ACTIONS.. I have to say it, to try and make myself belief it Theresa.   Its not easy.... actually extremely hard to do.

but since Love is a Noun,  I can love libs, obama, clinton, hillary, pelosi ( Oh that one is real hard) muslims and all those that want to destroy America.... But yes..... I can love them without having a feeling of wanting to go have  a Latte with them...

If I say it enough, maybe it will get into my heart Theresa... :) 

God knows my faults, and I do try and be better.

Yay Care II is alive again besides just me n curly lol. Things have been going alright. Lets see.. we are all moved in. I am still debating on where to put all my pictures and stuff and I still have to get some more toy boxes for rugrat and he needs a bigger bed.  That boy is tall as my 7 year old when she left last November.

Mom had a great vacation with the kids. She didnt want to come back. The kids got even bigger.  School started this week for them. They are both excited. B is in the Junior High school now and he likes it that he gets to go to different floors.  C loves being in 2nd grade.  They go to the same school they went to before but they have all different kids in their classes.  K didnt get to go to preschool. both schools were all filled up and I didnt think it would be fair for him to be in the car for 20 mins in the morning...then take a bus to go another 20 miles to school go for a few hours and then hop back on the bus, and then get in the car to go home. And when winter hits.... they dont run the buses very often. so its just better he stays in daycare til he can get in to pre K.  He did like the other daycare in Underwood though.

Um.. oh and if you didnt see the FB post.. rugrat went to driving school one day.  He was playin in the van and he hit the shifter into reverse (we were at my aunts "homestead in the country") and it rolled down her driveway down another hill and over a huge tree that was higher then my van n about 1 n 1/2 x as wide. He was ok and when i finally got to get into the van... he was just giggling n giggling.. he said.. MOM? I said WHAT? he said.. Maybe.. I should have went forwards???

I will post more later.. its break time.

I have a friend who is a real estate agent, and I do a lot of work for her. so she has helped a lot. The houses down here aren't moving to fast. Infact I have noticed houses in Bismarck itself dropping in price. Of course tho it ain't oil company down here tho.

I found it too sicko... took a while..

booty call  anyone?   LOL

I wish you luck finding a bargain sicko.   Houses are so low now in Charlotte.   Wish I were buying a couple.

Where is that thread I stared on  Obama staring at that girls butt?   I can't find it...

Sorry, I couldn't really enjoy the butt shot, the hair was too distracting!

You know there are some studies about just leaving the appendix in now, and treating the symptoms as they arise? I could look up the article, but it doesn't much matter (and may have only applied to kids).

Anyways, the girls go back to school tomorrow. It is going to be so quiet around the house. I won't have little helpers anymore either :(. I have a light school load this year, only 4 classes, two of which are software classes. The other one is a grammar class. (I still struggle with grammar and makes me soo mad). The other class is at night at BSC and it is called Russia, Myths and Reality. That class interests me the most.

Almost closed on a house on Sunday, but after some thought. I backed off, I think the housing market will continue to decline for awhile so I think I will wait for prices to drop more.

Ok "sis" lets find that butt one just for you.....:)

nice to hear from you.  I hate you are in pain.  I am praying as I am sure we all are.

I wouldn't divorce unless it were really really really necessary, otherwise just live sort of seperate if you must.

I love the idea of Ireland with family for a year... How cool is that!

Now, as far as you buying me lunch?  no way,  I would buy you lunch.  You are an american hero..

vivian

Curly, yep, a nurse. 

Curly,   I would be depressed too if I were your husband, I am not one for lingering pain. 

Tax... morning...

Yes,  problems, but also lots of good blessing each day.

talk later.

Hello all,

Shoppe it seems like when it rains it pours.  Not just your aunt, friend and now your son.  I am hoping it all turns out well for them all.  I do understand how hard it can be sometimes.   We have been having a bit of trouble around here too.  My step dad is not doing well.  He is 85 and seems to be failing badly.  I have driven over to Harvey several times cause we thought the end was at hand.  He is such a dear christian man and has lived a very Godly life, so I wish for him that he can move on to lifes reward for those that beleive.  On a lighter note, his daughters laugh and say the reason he fights so hard to live here on this earth is that he has three former sives in heaven waiting for him.  :o)  He has out lived all three and had three solid marriages.  What a testimony he is leaving for us all.  

My husband is still having pain but less then before.  I am not sure but I think he is in a deep depression.  I hope something will help soon.   I know some of the meds he is on make him sleep a great deal and I think he needs to back off of lots of them.  He is not on much pain meds now so that is good.   Today is a new day and I sure hope he will be more upbeat today.   Yesterday I made him go with me as I went and ran errands.  He was very tired when we got home and hugely GOUCHY! 

I usually go to the YMCA for my aquacise class but the pool is closed for two weeks so today, I am going to walk over to the famers market for some fresh tomatoes for my excercise.  Nice and cool out so that should be good. 

Hope you are all well,  and yes, where is Theresa.  I hope you are feeling better and reading this.  I could use a Walmart fix to give us all a smile. 

Later folks!

Ps.. forgot to say.... Saturday night, we are all in the tent getting ready to sleep..  we get a phone call.   My son Mike, 25, was rushed to hospital in wilmington nc... he had had a back ache 2 days before and left work early... then all the next day  it kept getting worse, no relief.... So he called my other son in wilmington (the one married last oct)  and talked to him about it,  Jason insisted he let him take him to emergency room.... After many tests including a cat scan, the dr. deteremined it was appendix, and said it will only get worse, so they did immediate surgury.   He came thru great.

But as a parent, it was difficult being  8 hrs away and not being there... so all we could do was pray for 2 hrs and wait for a phone call.....

He is now back home, well, and on heavy meds.  So heavy they won't let him work till Sept 2.....

Where is Theresa lately?

Anyway.. glad to be back and read  Care II.

Shoppes camping trip:

New tent, not as nice as it claims   It slept us 5 ok, but I cannot see it sleeping 8 unless some people sleep on top of others...hummmmmm .. ok, back to camping.

nice site to pitch a tent.   obviously too close to neighbors.   They kept us me awake till 1 a.m  Saturday night.  I coulda punched their lights out!   I enjoy my sleep... I gave them the ole evil eye next morning,  if looks could kill, they would be dead!  

Had a great reunion, weather was terrific (thank sicko)...

Small turnout at the reunion because the Matriarch of the family, my aunt mary 93, was in the hospital.   We all gave her a short visit since there were so many of us... She looked well, but today had some problems.... then I find out my dearest friend has been going thru chemo with breast cancer... pray for Debbie B. please...    Then one of my first cousins just had her foot removed, she is a beautiful youngish lady.... Diabetes.   I didn't know it ran in the family, so I best watch it now. 

So I should be glad to be alive and whole, but I am still somewhat depressed and not sure why....

Anyway,   so glad to be back chatting with all of you.  

Hello,

I m Boazdexter. Today I use this forum first. I learn very much from your forum. Please give me more guidance about this forum. I am very happy after using this forum.

Thank You.




________________________________________
Want to get-on Google's first page and loads of traffic to your website? Hire a SEO Specialist from Ocean Groups  [url=http://oceangroups.org/] seo pecialist [/url]

I would only hope, hope mind you, that Mr. Gates remembers the look on those peoples faces as he ponders "CUTTING"  Military funding in the future.

The military does a lot more than kill people and break things. AND DON'T FORGET IT!

Those Whirlybirds don't fly real on "Hope and Change" they take expert mechanics and expensive parts. Those Chinooks are as old as some of you on this forum.

Thanx to Mechanical Expertise they still can do the job they were intended for.

Best wishes, Bill

We watch  EXTREME MAKEOVER every sunday night with the family.  My favorite words are  MOVE THAT BUS... reminds me now of   MOVE THAT HA-MOSQUE....

sorry was that over the top?   Maybe I need decaf.

Marilyn,  anyone can say that.  And they did.  Its not a tribute against terrorism in my eyes,  but a Victory Mosque.

Maybe I am just synical.... maybe.

THE FACTS:

No mosque is going up at ground zero. (we knew that) The center would be established at 45-51 Park Place, just over two blocks from the northern edge of the sprawling, 16-acre World Trade Center site. Its location is roughly half a dozen normal Lower Manhattan blocks from the site of the North Tower, the nearest of the two destroyed in the attacks.

The center's location, in a former Burlington Coat Factory store, is already used by the cleric for worship, drawing a spillover from the imam's former main place for prayers, the al-Farah mosque. That mosque, at 245 West Broadway, is about a dozen blocks north of the World Trade Center grounds.

Another, the Manhattan Mosque, stands five blocks from the northeast corner of the World Trade Center site.

To be sure, the center's association with 9/11 is intentional and its location is no geographic coincidence. The building was damaged in the Sept. 11 attacks and the center's planners say they want the center to stand as a statement against terrorism.

Marilyn,  we have always done our part far and above what anyone else would do.   So why are we so criticized.   Who knows.   We help everyone with money we don't have (suppositely)  and we are always condemed.   Even Obama apologizes for us and our evil ways... sigh.

By the way marilyn... thanks so much for the info and the photos...

LONDON – Crops destroyed, millions homeless, children hungry. The scenes from flood-hit Pakistan are wrenching — but the global response has been criticized as sluggish.

The United Nations says it has yet to raise half its $460 million target. The World Health Organization has received commitments for just 25 percent of the $56 million it has asked for. One aid group has called donations from European countries "feeble."

Relief agencies say they are puzzled by the lack of generosity, while analysts cite a mix of factors: the disaster's low death toll, its timing during the northern hemisphere's summer holidays — and fears that aid money will be squandered through corruption or make its way into the hands of the Taliban.

"We are perplexed as to why the international community has not responded as generously and as quickly as it can do," said Ian Bray, a spokesman for Britain-based aid agency Oxfam.

After a slow start, the U.N. and relief agencies say donations are now rising as the scale of the calamity becomes clear. But the response has been far less spectacular than the global generosity that followed Haiti's earthquake and the 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami.

According to Oxfam, donors committed $742 million and pledged a further $920 million within the first 10 days after the Haitian quake. For Pakistan, the figures over the same period were $45 million and $91 million.

Earlier this week, the U.N. said governments had pledged more than $150 million to Pakistan, but $300 million more was still needed. On Wednesday, it said funding had more than doubled in the last two days and the appeal was now 50 percent covered.

"We're moving in the right direction," said Elisabeth Byrs, a U.N. humanitarian spokeswoman.

However, U.N. officials describe a palpable sense of fatigue among donors, and even among themselves. Employees of the global body organized a "Haiti staff fund" for their private donations earlier this year but haven't done anything similar for Pakistan.

One factor is that individuals in many countries are feeling less generous as austerity sweeps Europe and North America.

Another is the gradual spread of the disaster — a flood is a creeping catastrophe rather than a sudden shock like an earthquake or a tsunami — and the relatively low death toll.

Since late July, floods triggered by monsoon rains have washed through Pakistan from its mountainous northwest, destroying hundreds of thousands of homes and an estimated 1.7 million acres (nearly 700,000 hectares) of farmland. Some 1,500 people have been killed, and 20 million are affected.

"The problem is that it's not as immediate as an earthquake," said Melanie Brooks of aid group CARE International. "It can't be captured on a photograph like in Haiti. Someone wading through the water is not the same as seeing someone pulling a relative out of the rubble."

Partly, it's a question of proximity. Many Americans saw Haiti as a neighbor and responded generously. Pakistan is farther away, both geographically and psychologically.

The U.S. government is the largest bilateral donor, however, donating more than $70 million and sending military helicopters to rescue stranded people and drop food and water.

Photos: US Military And Pakistan Flood Relief

Since July, monsoon rains have caused heavy flooding in many areas of Pakistan. The United Nations estimates more than 20 million people are affected. In response the disaster, the United States has launched a civilian and military relief effort in the country. As part of that effort, US military fixed and rotary wing aircraft are ferrying people and supplies to and from the flood zone. Below are thirteen photos from that military response.

Please consider donating to the NGO flood relief effort here or elsewhere.

Caption: Amphibious assault ship USS Peleliu and amphibious transport dock ship USS Dubuque steam off the coast of Pakistan in the early stages of supporting the Pakistani government and military with heavy lift capabilities to bring relief to those affected in flooded regions of Pakistan. Peleliu and Dubuque are a part of Peleliu Amphibious Ready Group. Photo by Petty Officer 2nd Class Andrew Dunlap.

Caption: A forklift with bags of humanitarian assistance is loaded by Pakistani workers into a U.S. Marine Corps helicopter that has arrived to take over the flight role from the U.S. Army in the delivery of humanitarian assistance to the flood victims as part of the disaster recovery effort in Pakistan, Khyber Pakhtunkhwa Province, Pakistan, Aug. 13. Photo by Staff Sgt. Horace Murray.

Caption: Pakistani Air Force members help unload thousands of Halal meals from a U.S. Air Force C-130H at Peshawar, Pakistan, Aug. 1, 2010. The meals will go to Pakistanis affected by the floods that have devastated the region. The C-130H is assigned to the 455th Air Expeditionary Wing at Bagram Airfield, Afghanistan. Photo by Staff Sgt. Christopher Boitz.

Caption: Pakistani Air Force members help unload thousands of Halal meals from a U.S. Air Force C-130H at Peshawar, Pakistan, Aug. 1, 2010. The meals will go to Pakistanis affected by the floods that have devastated the region. The C-130H is assigned to the 455th Air Expeditionary Wing at Bagram Airfield, Afghanistan. Photo by Staff Sgt. Christopher Boitz.

Caption: Pakistan civilians from the town of Kalam are gathered inside a U.S. Army Chinook helicopter which has come to deliver humanitarian assistance and pick up victims of the flood, Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province (formerly North West Frontier province), Pakistan, Aug. 9, 2010. Photo by Staff Sgt. Horace Murray.

Caption: A member of the Pakistan military points in the direction to where the passengers from the U.S. Army Chinook helicopter need to go after being delivered to the town of Khwazakhela from the flooding, Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province (formerly North West Frontier province), Pakistan, Aug. 9, 2010. Photo by Staff Sgt. Horace Murray.

Caption: A Pakistani military member assists a man and child during the evacuation process to board a U.S. Army Chinook helicopter to the town of Khwazakhela, during the flood recovery effort in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province, Pakistan, Aug. 11. Photo by Staff Sgt. Horace Murray.

Caption: Pakistan men from the town of Kalam form a chain to quickly unload a U.S. Army Chinook helicopter that has delivered humanitarian assistance and pick up victims of the flood, Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province (formerly North West Frontier province), Pakistan, Aug. 9, 2010. Photo by Staff Sgt. Horace Murray.

Caption: Pakistan men from the town of Kalam carry a bags of flour, while they unload a U.S. Army Chinook helicopter which has come to deliver humanitarian assistance and pick up victims of the flood, Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province (formerly North West Frontier province), Pakistan, Aug. 9, 2010. Photo by Staff Sgt. Horace Murray.

Caption: A little girl from who is evacuated from the town of Kalam wears a set of headphones to reduce the loud aircraft sound aboard a U.S. Army Chinook helicopter which has come to deliver humanitarian assistance and pick up victims of the flood, Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province (formerly North West Frontier province), Pakistan, Aug. 9, 2010. Photo by Staff Sgt. Horace Murray.

Caption: U.S. Army Sgt. Kristopher Perkins, a Chinook crew chief with Company B, Task Force Raptor, 3rd Combat Aviation Brigade, TF Falcon, holds a child in his lap after picking up 114 Pakistan victims during flood relief missions, Aug. 11, out of the Swat valley, Pakistan. Photo by U.S. Army Sgt. Monica K. Smith.

Caption: A U.S. Army Chinook helicopter flies over the flood affected area in Pakistan on a return flight from delivering hummanitarin assistance and evacuating personnel to the town of Khwazakhela, as part of the flood recovery effort in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province, Pakistan, Aug. 11. Photo by Staff Sgt. Horace Murray.

Reply...

We need to help the needy.  Any needy.   BUT NOT MONEY... Seems thats what they are asking for....yea, right.    Like I would give them a buck... I would instead  send food , water, meds... period....

But if they shoot at aid workers,  then why should we go?  

My husband just put up his pakistan pictures (from humanitarian trip) up on facebook... You can probably go to mine and click on his to see.

Any history buffs out there?

Didn't the Muslims,  centuries ago when they took over part of Spain  use a Church to put their Mosque in, their Victory mosque,  AS A SIGN OF VICTORY?

Let me know if you know anything about this.

De javu

And those Native Americans died in other places besides reservations, so your point is moot, unless you admit to having double standards between chrisitans and muslims.

Oh, I didn't miss it.  The building where they WANT to build it was hit by part of one of the planes.  It became 'sacred' and the worth of it went from 18 million to 4 million.  They are getting it on the cheap from their bombings.  Again, when the moderate Muslims are outraged about the terror attacks, I may start to listen. 

If they had been successful with all 4 four planes, do you really believe that we would even be allowed to have these conversations?  The answer is no. 

First the Mosque is NOT ON GROUND ZERO. Nor is the hypothetical church, and no you completely missed the point.

It is meant to point out the hypocrisy when it comes to freedom of religion. Some will say yes to the Catholic Church simply because it is Christian without regard to the history. Some will say no to the Mosque because of the history.

So because there are catholic churches ON the reservations, you mean the Mosque should be built ON the site of the twin towners site? 

I wonder if there would be all this tolerance for Islam if the four planes had been successful in their endeavors? 

Just to clarify, I would be for the building of the Catholic church being built in the same way I am for the Mosque being built.

Catholic Missions were tasked with taking over indeginous populations, with or without force. See the California Missions.

The Spanish under the granting of land and the order of the Vatican, set out to colonize the New World, and spread the Catholic faith. From the time that Columbus found America to the 17th century roughly 90% of the 6 or so million native Americans had died. Mainly of disease brought by the Europeans, but there were many wars and conquests.

Major cultures like Aztecs and the Icans owe their demise directly to the Church and the Spanish. Along many many thousands more. Even the some Friars were upset with the practices Conquistadors and the Vatican and Spain condoning it. Friar Bartolome de las Casas flat out accused Spain and the Vatican of Genocide.

So the Native Americans (note that we are not in hypothetical land now) would not want a Catholic Church built near the reservation have about they same reason as those who appose the Mosque. So if you oppose the mosque then you should oppose the church. 

I think we should always help but I don't trust our media on what's really going on there.  How's it going SG?   I just moved from ND to Arkansas.  

Commenting with regards to history and culpabilty.  Today's philosophical view (to which I too subscribe) is one tied to the modern concept of individual causation.  If you didn't cause it, you are not responsible.

Recently, I was reading a history of the Qin Dynasty in China.....where the terrible trangressions of an individual would reflect terribly on the entire family. So if one person committed a treasonable crime, punishable by death, a few (three?) generations of the family would also be put to death.

The concept of causation here was that the family didn't police its own.

- - -

The slavery aspect brings in other concepts such as continued benefit from a past misdeed. ..... which I don't want to get into.

- - -

But returning to "causation" and September 11th.  Who caused it? Who is to blame? Is your answer more similar to modern American view or ancient Chinese?

wow......lots of "I'm not sure" parralel construction there.  Sorry.

I'm not sure that falling back on history is a fallacy at all.  I'm not sure that the Pope has murdered anyone as of late; however, the jews might find argument with that in regards to Pope Pius XII and WWII.

I'm not sure what was meant by either Sick~o's post (from last night) or your response (this morning). So it is hard for me to comment.

Sick-o, I don't recall the pope killing people......unless again you are living back in the Dark Ages.......But then again I suppose each and every one of us is just as culpable for slavery as the plantation owners many years ago, long before we were born..............

Sometime you have to realize history, is just that.....history.  What we do NOW is what we are judged by.  The Catholic church has had it's problems, but to fall back to ancient history is what, wuw, "red herrings", "strawdogs", "strawman"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies

.....maybe this can clarify my questions..............

Taxi.  I think that because Sick~o discovered that the article was ignorant with regards to who uses the F-18 (it ain't the Air Force)......if you can't get the fundamental info correct, how can we trust the author to be an authority on anything else written?

I pretty much find this par for the course, more-so that after I read most so-called "news" articles, that I have MANY questions left unanswered.......but I have just resolved it in my mind that the LMSM "journalists" have decided that we are entitled to only what puts forth their agenda.  "Global Warming" is a prime, prime example..................

So why the angst in this situation................it's par...............

Well, I tried to get to sleep early but I seem to be wide awake so I got up to dig out Care II.  I like to know what all of you are up to so I think it is good to keep this thread alive.  Besides it is  getting big.  Shucks 91 pages..

Hubby is still having lots of pain, and the pain pills make him  real joy to live with.  NOT!  He is testy and real goofy.  Not himself at all.  He  normally has a great sense of humor but seems to have lost it for now.  He also mutters to himself all the time.  I think it is his thoughts but he is saying them....God help us.  Sometimes they are not so sweet.

Had some folks stop by to see us today.  Sort of distant relatives and it was nice to have some folks to visit with.  They brought us lots of garden produce.  Cucumbers and tomatoes, a huge zuccini and plums from the plum tree they have.  She also brought us some garden lettuce and some homemade strawberry jelly.  I love fresh produce so it is great.

Sorry, life is rather dull here these days so hope you all have some good times to report.  Maybe Theresa will read this and find a good Wal mart picture so I can have a laugh. 

Sleep well my friends.  Gonna try again to get to sleep.

Later all! 

Miss-naming can be a brain fart

or

It can be ignorance

Getting paid for either one is bad.

Hey Shepard.....Now that is a creative idea....sort of like the goose and gander theory.

I think it will not be built, not because it is going to be stopped by anyone from an authoritive stance, but because any company willing to bid the job will never find work in New York again.  Even if there was a company to bid it, would there be workers enough to see it through??

No,  misnaming something is just a brain phart. Any body can have it happen to them.

This is another in the thrilling adventure of word perfect and spell check. Nobody proofreads their material anymore. How many times lately have you read a story and one of the five important  W facets is missing.

Who, what, when, where or why. As taught by Mr. Macklin, c1954 Jounalism Class. That guy had the coolist car in the world, Studebaker Golden Hawk.

Best wishes, Bill

What if I wrote a story about a

Ford Camaro

Chevy Mustang

of a Toyota Ram truck, would that not discredit me?

Wait what? Where are we talking about F-16's?

Well, hello, Sicko~king, it's been awhile.

I say, let New York solve New York's problems.  They don't meddle in our affairs, let's not meddle in theirs.

Exactly, it doesn't take more than a second, (if you don't know) to find out about the F-18. If they can't figure that out or it wasn't caught earlier, it does (to me at least) cast doubt on the rest of the article. Again, I am probably making moutains out of molehills. 

That said, it is uplifitng story about a little ND that has high tech non oil related jobs, and maybe Northrup Grumman should look at putting more jobs up here.

Since it can't be legally stopped, why bother protesting?  God will render his own judgement.

Here's a bit of trivia:  the first mosque built in the U.S.A. was 2 miles east of Ross, North Dakota, 1930, by Lebanese and Syrian legal immigrants.

Their descendants are still here.  While most claim to have become Christianized, many still keep their Korans on special "family altars".  They still have their mosque and no one around has any problems with it.

taxi

Paragraph was just a goof up. The responder may have been thinking about MAFB at the time and just tied in the association of the F-18 and married it to the AF in his mind.

Best wishes, Bill

Taxi.  I think that because Sick~o discovered that the article was ignorant with regards to who uses the F-18 (it ain't the Air Force)......if you can't get the fundamental info correct, how can we trust the author to be an authority on anything else written?

There are some mistakes that are neither here-nor-there, but to those who follow these types of articles (of which I am not one), this one, I suppose, is akin to talking about how the Minnesota Vikings scored a home run or the New York Yankees scored a touchdown.

Maybe those examples are too extreme, but I think you get the point.

I asked (I knew the answer, as I think most of you knew.... However I brought this up because of this article... http://www.kxnet.com/custom404.asp?404;http://www.kxnet.com/news/616326.asp

I was reading through it, and for some reason, I can't get over the whole F-18 Air Force statement. I know it is probably just me, but seemed to put the whole article in to question for me.

Navy and Marines for sure. There used to be some at Nellis for training purposes and I can't tell you if they were flown by Air Force Pilots or not.

the Hornet has the only 2 Kills during the desert wars that I know of. I wonder and ponder what will happen if Iran and Israel ever tangle. I don't think Irans old dilapidated F-4's are going to be a player against the Israelis.

It'll be like a Lamborghinni against a VW Beetle. .At the end of the 60's I was a member of the 4535 th Combat Crew Training Squadron at George AFB. We trained Israelis, Saudis, Jordanians pilots. The Israeli Pilots were hands down much better pilots.  

The Israelis take everything seriously, VERY seriously. Of course as Golda Meir once said "we have no place to run to, except the sea, so we might as well stay and fight". And fight they will.

I have 2 Grand Nieces in the IDF presently. They are the sweetest young ladies you'd ever want to meet. But if you cross them there is no doubt in my mind they would cut out your heart and hand it to you. One is even a Redhead and her name is Zippi. Guess her birth name.

No Fair Theresa!

Back to the original question, I know of no other service or foreign country that uses the F-18.

Best wishes, Bill

The existing church (St. Nicholas) is being held up by the church as much as it by the city...

I am hearing rumors that the mosque builder will abandon the spot...

I hinted at this being distraction on Friday or Saturday, but it doesn't seem that anyone picked up the pretty blunt hint.

Distraction from the economy and the 9.5 %unemployment.

It is working for him for now.

The President masterfully wiped you guys up into a frenzy, when there are things millions of times more important. The more you guys dither about this, the better off he is.

Found some interesting news on the St. Nicholas...They negotiated to sell the land the church occupied to the Port Authority for 20 million in 2008. The deal was never finalized. The Port Authority has set limits (sometimes shifting) on how tall and big the church must be, and the church has continued to demand more concessions.

So this case is two way street of red tape.

I don't know more than this.  This is the first I have heard of this.  Will have to keep checking it out.

In a breaking news story, the Israeli Haaretz news agency reports:

After weeks of heated debate over plans for an Islamic community center near Ground Zero – the site of the 9/11 attacks on New York – it seems Muslim leaders will soon back down, agreeing to move to a new site.

The decision follows a high-profile campaign against the project that included advertisements on New York buses showing images of the burning Twin Towers, an iconic landmark razed when al-Qaida terrorists flew packed passenger planes into them in 2001. The New York Republican party is also said to be planning a hostile television campaign.

Sources in New York said on Monday that Muslim religious and business leaders will announce plans to abandon the project in the next few days.

New York Governor David Patterson said last weekend that Muslim leaders had rejected outright his proposal to swap the site in for another in Manhattan.

Can't we stay on subject?

Mosque at ground zero.....

Why must it be there?   They already have hundreds in NY... why there, why now?

Lets chat (not about strip clubs),  but if it goes up, lets build a gay bar next door to the muslim tower.

Victory Tower

You know Rider as his business was set up, it was against the law. Hence the application for the special use permit. Furthermore, special use permits get turned down a lot anyways.

Besides, outside of zoning laws, I think this discussion about a Minot Strip Club in a thread about a mosque being built in NYC, has run it's course.

BACK TO THE MOSQUE

Lame.

Rider, is that you I hear panting all the way over here waitin' for the strip club

Sick~O, Rider is ready and waitin' for your wife, daughter or sister!!!  See how KX can connect everyone!!!! 

Shoppe, I would like you to answer my question...I would be appreciated if you did!

WW,   you say our old test is similar to the koran...   But we don't live like the old test,  WE HAVE JESUS... That is a new covenant... That is the one I go by..

Muslims are lost in the old teaching of the koran.   Isn't it true tha mohammed wasn't educated... heard that last night.

- - -

Shoppe. There are a few issues you raise above.....and not in a particularly focused way.  Seriously, you are all over the map.

1. I would flip it and say that The Koran is very similar to the Old Testament.  If Mohammed would have written it in 2010, he would have been sued for plagarism by the Jews.

2. That YOU have Jesus is beside the point, isn't it.

• However, let us pursue this path a little. Now that you have the new covenant, what does it say about the old covenant?


• Is the old covenant now immoral?

3.  Muslims are lost in the old teaching......  Is there a new (and better) teaching of the Koran? What do you mean by this?

4. Who said that Mohammed was uneducated? I believe he was born to an aristocratic family that was more title than wealthy at the time of his life. And if I am not mistaken, he was a merchant/trader.  I certainly wasn't expecting that an ignoramus would be able to sythesize Jewish, Monophysite Christianity and traditional local religions into a coherent philosophy.

If my daughter or my sister decide to go, (and they are of age) then it is their decision and absolutey in no way involves me.

Like I have said before, if the zoning laws permit it to be built and it passes all other hurdles then I have no problem with it. Finally if it such a problem then the voters of Ward County or the Ward County commissioners need to do something about it.

However after reading through the case, the owner was asking for a special use permit. Meaning he wanted to operate a business in an area not zoned for that businees. Which is normally a pain in the but to get anyways, let alone being an unpopular business. So I stand with the law on this one again, which was to deny the application.

Okay, so a man wants to build a strip club. Most people don't want it (or only a few want it), what are the zoning laws there? Most local gov'ts have very strict zoing laws regarding business's of this type.

My feeling is, if properly zoned, and it passes all the other hurdles required by the law. Then I don't care if they build it or not, the question is whether or not it stays in business. The strip clubs (all 2 of them in Mandan) were pretty much shut down when the city pretty much zoned them out. After the zoning law was put a vote by the people of Mandan.

Shoppe-If this was a Catholic Church being built close to a reservation, and the native population was up in arms about it. Would you say it is abhorent or freedom of religion must be honored?

Tax-I am really unaware of the gentlemen's club issue...

all we stress is peoples "freedoms",  we never talk about their responsibility that comes along with these freedoms.

It is the responsibility of   muslim to NOT build there since it is hurtful to millions of us in America.   Period.

~~~~

WW,   you say our old test is similar to the koran...   But we don't live like the old test,  WE HAVE JESUS... That is a new covenant... That is the one I go by..

Muslims are lost in the old teaching of the koran.   Isn't it true tha mohammed wasn't educated... heard that last night.

Perversion of faith for violence has deep roots in, Judaism, Christanity, and Islam...

I understand the sentiment, like we have been over. I agree even that I find it in bad taste to put it there (considering the hubbub and the available open space). That said I believe in the rule of law, and the law is on the side of the mosque builders.

If this was a Catholic Church being built close to a reservation, and the native population was up in arms about it. Would you say it is abhorent or freedom of religion must be honored?

Are you asking me to consider Ms. Burlingame as some kind of authority when it comes to Islam?

Burlingame on symbol and reality

I spoke last week with Debra Burlingame, co-founder of the group 9/11 Families for a Safe and Strong America, for a piece Ben and I did for this morning on a shift in how Republicans are approaching Islam and Muslims in America, and below is the fuller version of the interview.

Burlingame, whose brother Charles was the pilot of the jetliner that crashed into the Pentagon on Sept. 11, 2001, has remained a vocal voice among family members on a range of topics, including safety and security (she also serves on the board of Keep America Safe), the KSM trials (the location still hasn't been settled on and may not be before the elections this fall) , and the trial/tribunal for the mastermind of the 2000 U.S.S. Cole bombings.

Her perspective on the mosque near Ground Zero, she says, is not just a question of sensitivity to the proximity to the site, but also one in which the construct of religious freedom is something of a straw man. Her argument is that Islam is a religion that many Westerners don't understand, and one in which the rule of Sharia law, practiced in extremes, has allowed violence to fester. 

She has questioned, as have other critics, the location of the mosque, but also beliefs of the imam behind the project and some of what he has said (or hasn't said, such as in the case of Hamas). And she suggests that concerns Americans have about Islam have often been quashed, and that until they're aired, there will never be progress.

Since she has been one of the most vocal opponents of the mosque, and since I'm posting many reactions to it - and to the president - this weekend after his speech, the full interview is after the jump.

"The one thing that this mosque issue has really crystallized for me is the 'who's the enemy' question," Burlingame said. "The 'Muslim' world - when we talk about that, what do we mean? The Muslims are not a monolithic group and that's all really true."

But she said the issue of Sharia law "is the defining line...and there's gradations of it too."

"I meet wonderful Muslim people every day of the week in New York," she said, adding that "secular Muslims," in much of the Muslim world, "are weird animals."

"Then there's pious Muslims...who just want to be good people and just live in a peaceful world," but who are also more open to some of the more broadly-applied elements of Sharia law.

The differences are real and important to know, she said, and "if you don't understand that then you're either at best...spinning your wheels or you're making a situation worse."

In terms of "freedom of religion" as an issue people have used to support the mosque project, Burlingame said, "That's not the issue that we're dealing with...that's a Western concept, completely." She cited Mayor Bloomberg's speech in defense of the project as an example of people taking the concept of "freedom of religion" and misapplying it in this case.

For the most part in Islamic culture, she said, "They are slaves to Allah...Allah owns you in the Muslim world."

She said she was astonished that the U.S.. State Department posted Bloomberg's speech on its website.

"He's giving a speech where he's lecturing his fellow citizens," she said. "This is the guy who's the mayor of the city that was bombed, who was close to the issue, and he's basically saying, 'You're bad citizens, I'm ashamed of you,' and this is what they put out to the Muslim world."

In terms of the shift among Republicans away from the George W. Bush administration approach, she said, "I would have the same criticism of the Bush administration, although it was early enough that they didn't know what they were doing...I understand why he did it. (But) the 'religion of peace' stuff, that's so clunky and simple."

She said that for much of the Muslim world where it's the dominant faith, "the enlightenment hasn't event happened yet," and the cultural divide is so enormous it's hard to measure.

"For us to be going out there and talking about democracy and women's rights," she said, is senseless, adding that in some countries there are practices that are physically awful for women.

"So how do we, who are light years ahead in terms of our consciousness, come in and fix that?" she said.

She used the term "liberal" to describe a mindset, not one that she said was political but one that has a "form of moral vanity, which is, 'We're good people, and we're better than this...I find it terribly condescending.'"

She suggested people know "that they're being condescended to" and that it becomes some of a tool.

"I do ascribe to the 'clash of civilizations' theory now," she said. "I really do, and I think the challenge for us is enlisting the Muslims who have already bought into the American program and not adjusting" to the East.

She added, "We've had troubles with these categories - Islam, 'radical Islam,' 'Muslims,' 'terrorists.' I'm actually very hopeful (that) we could talk honestly about this. We can't really fix this until we are able to speak honestly about it.

"And when you have people knee-jerk calling serious critics ...'Islamaphobes,' there's only one reason they do that, and that is to shut you up because they know that's a dreadful accusation ...how do you defend against that? You can't."

Of the challenges of the issue, she said, "This is a different model. You and I now for generations had been raised on this concept of separation of church and state, and that you don't trash som Reply...

Why do Americans go out of their way to defend foreign lifestyles?  I thought that the majority had some rights.  60 some percent of the the people who LIVE in NYC do not want the Mosque there, why does their voice not count?  They are not the enlightened ones?  I have heard only one Muslim speak out against the Mosque being bulit there.  She is a moderate Muslim from Canada who touts that the Koran teaches respect for people not of their faith.  When I hear from the 'millions' of Muslims who are horrified by the actions of a 'few' extremists, then, I will listen to their demands.

Our forefathers crafted, designed, and built a foundation for a country different from the European monarhcy class state that they found offensive.  We, in the last 65 years, and particularly in the last 20 years have nearly destroyed that country which was different from all other countries in the world.  The freedoms that were crafted into the Constitution should be revered, respected and protected.  The lifestyle that comes with those freedoms brings with it a tremendous responsibility to save and protect it.  That can't be done by allowing anyone without the repsect for those same standards to live here.  EAch of us has a responsibility to preserve it for the next generation.  Currently, we are failing.

Marilyn. There is also provisions with regards to those who are "of the book".....of which the Jews and Christians belong.

I would recommend anyone to study Pre-Crusade Jerusalem under Muslim rule. The Jews and Monophysite Christians much preferred having the Muslims as their masters than the Christianity coming from Constantinople, Rome or France.  

Why?  Because the Muslims were much much much more tolerant of other religions.  Same Koran then as now.

Marilyn.....and yet  1.5 Billion followers don't do those things you listed.  So perhaps there are countervailing passages in that same book......or perhaps the book needs to be read as studiously as those who try to make sense of their own preferred book of religion.......in order to get the actual meaning.

Who knows....maybe "this is my body" and "this is my blood" takes some context to understand.

Shoppe. Let me ask you this.....

If someone were picking up the Bible for the first time (with little prior knowledge)......how much do you think they would misunderstand?  How many of those seemingly very controversial statements might be more easily made palatable by someone with greater knowledge of the Bible?

Are there different ways in which the Bible is read amongst the different denominations?  And has the focus of the readings (by the populace) changed over the last 2000 years?

KORAN commands to kill infidels:

Allah is an enemy to unbelievers. - Sura 2:98

On unbelievers is the curse of Allah. - Sura 2:161

Slay them wherever ye find them and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. - 2:191

I love Theresa like a sister from a different mom.  :)   She has some good comments on this.

I never thought it was a christian vs islam issue?   Did I say that? 

We may have the same reasons for opposing it WW.  just maybe.

Now,  I never thought it was a christian vs Muslim thing because  not everyone killed on  9-11 was a christian,  just innocents killed by terrorists.

And yes, I am one that is so glad we are killing the terrorists on a daily basis now.  Evil needs destroyed.

Of course not all  Muslims are evil as Theresa said, but I think if they follow the Koran,  then they do truly hate us...

Which is too bad,  we can disagree on our religon,  live side by side in my cul de sac,  and yet, they would be the ones wanting me dead, not the other way around.   I wouldn't harm a flea...

Shoppe.  I understand that you don't want it there.  Guess what? I don't think its the best place for it either.  And I would imagine that some of our reasons may coincide.

However, Theresa's post was pretty spot-on: we are not at war with Islam.  This is not a religious war.

Some of you seem to have framed it that way though.

Now, with that said, it would be Pollyannaish for me to completely ignore the religious component to this analysis. 

But ultimately it isn't about Christianity versus Islam....its about whether a place of worship should be permitted two blocks from the site...... where Christians, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, non-believers (and others) tragically died.   

Heres what I am saying. 

1. I don't care if they build 1000 mosques in NY....

2.  I just don't want it there.

To me that is meeting half way.... saying, yes build (since this is america and you are free too), but be sensitive to our greatest tragedy and  MOVE IT.. :)

Half way, just what WW wants..

You Americans who are cutting down the people who object to the 'location' of this building, might want to empathize a little more and understand the pain and anger that so many are experiencing right now. Not just people who have lost family members there either.

- - -

Marilyn, I know what you are saying....and I agree with it. But let me take you to task just a little.

The way this is phrased seems to betray a sentiment that those who don't want a mosque built are able to feel the gravity, the pain and sorrow that the terrible day brought more so than those who would permit a mosque.

There is no empathizing more!  I empathize (and I suspect Sick~o.....and Theresa, et al.) just as much as anyone else on the board who is for banning the mosque.

This sentiment is one that rubs me a little wrongly......because it reminds me of the whole patriotic pissing contest that defined our conversations 7 - 9 years ago.

- - -

Look, there are two approaches here: 1) I take your words to task and/or 2) I meet you half-way and understand what you are trying to convey.....in this medium (quick hitting posts) that doesn't allow comprehensive thoughts to  be expressed nearly as much as we like.

By this post, I am doing both.  Because while I don't think that YOU bear such an attitude of condescension, others here definitely do.

[I expect you to take this wrongly, I apologize if you do]

Hey Theresa. 

Yes, they have a right to do it.    KKK has a right to build there if they had bought the property. 

No matter what, Muslims are always the same.  If they follow the Koran then they hate us, and hate Israel.   To me, thats Major.

It will be built.   We cannot stop it.  But it is a slap in the face I believe.  

Can we do that over there?  I doubt it.   I should do a google search of 15 story Christian churches in Middle east... :(

I remember that.  I didn't like it when Bush did it either.

But Bush also didn't dis the boy scouts.

Bush didn't dis Church Attendance.

Bush loved the Troops.

.......

tax or hear us -  do you listen to El Rushbo??

just curious because that is where I heard as well that GW Bush had started the tradition.

Quilts?  Now I am sure we have to meet Curly, in NC, so you can show me how to quilt.  :)    I so enjoyed our phone conversation..

That was a great idea about trading in the pacies... I bet you could send that into a Parenting magazine and they would post that story...

Pacies are always good for getting kids to sleep, but so hard on the teeth.

My Andrew (now 9) used to love to put 2 in his mouth and then laugh ... I have the pic, I will find it.

Take care and good night cyber ladies  and grant, and sicko.

GRandkids are fun aren't they?  I love being a grandma.  We have a little boy move in down the street from us.  He has no family here and calls us grandma and grandpa.  He has the biggest sky blue eyes I have ever seen.

Monday is our little GAvin's birthday.  He will be 3.  What a sweet little guy.  He said he wants a candle for his birthday to make a wish.  What he really got was a Escalaide.  One of those cars that run on batteries.  His Daddy decided to get it for him, but first he had to gather all his pacifiers and trade them in on it.  He told him that he had to pay for it with all his pacifiers.  He did it.  He took them in a baggy to Toys r us in FArgo and gave them to the lady (plus Daddy's credit card) and he got to take it home.  He has not cared one bit for the pacifiers.  He is hard to get to bed now though.  Was easy before, guess he knew when he got his pacifier it was time to sleep.  Now they need a new signal.

I will look at your facebook pics Shoppe.  Thank you for your kind words.  I am looking forward to the day we can meet.  Son is taking the job in NC it looks like so maybe it will not be long.  He will start but will be a while till the family moves.  It will work out I am sure. 

Well, back to my quilt.  I am working on one for our nephews new baby.  He was born July 16th.  He is the forth boy in the family.  They have 4 boys, all under the age of 4.  The oldest two are twins and will be 4 on Oct 19. Now that is a crazy household. 

I am also working on another quilt like I made our son.  I am making it for the party the guard is planning for the troops in Bismarck.  It is the welcome home party for troops and families.  I think on facebook I have a picture of the first one and this one is like it.  If I knew how to cut and paste better I would put it over here so you could see it.  It will be a door prize at the party. 

Well, later all!

Q: Do you know what they call the area two blocks north of the Grand Central Station (42nd Street Entrance)?

A:  44th Street.

Does anyone think this is purposely being used to distract you from the real issues?!?

Like the economy?

or

Political Corruption?

or

Iran getting nuclear fuel from Russia?

or

Union pension fruad?

C'mon Shoppe.  You know as well as anybody...that 2 blocks in lower Manhattan is not the same thing as two blocks anywhere else in the world.

WW,  urgh  yourself.  I think its a very good post..

marilyn,  before we talk, please read the charles Krathammer  article two times....... I am saying that to put ANYTHING, ANYTHING,   CHURCH,  STORE, CULTURAL CENTER, ANYTHING on some sites is just dispicable...

and a mosque at Ground Zero is doubly dispicable....

urgh.

What did we ever do without you Curly... You bring such fun to this talk forum, and to my facebook.

Tell hubby we all hope he gets well soon,    and grouchy,  well grouchy is something you just have to live with I guess... no pill for that.  LOL

~~~~

Go to my profile and you will see pics of my grandkids.  Anyway the 6 yr old had soccer practice today.   They scrimmaged some older kids, and the older kid accidently hit Nathan pretty hard in the chest with a ball..

When Nathan got home he said  someone kicked a ball and it hit him in the heart, but its ok cause he can still feel it "bumping".... Kids are great. :)

Tax- The crusades had Christians slaughtering people for their religion, no not in our times but it still happened. Maybe we should just make religion illegal! All it seems to do is divide and cause fights. Indians were slaughtered, not in my life time but we still pay them billions a year.

Mad, okay, building the mosque will cure all the ills of the past.  And I didn't know that the Indians were slaughtered by religious extremists.

Hey Prarie... Many of us believe Obama is a Muslim mole.

There are things that are sacred,   GROUND ZERO IS SACRED TO US NOW...

And Obama is making it a place for the Muslims to laugh at us.

I think NEW YORKERS should be up in arms about this whole thing, and be protesting on a daily basis.

Maybe you don't have them there Marilyn.   A  7-11 is a convenience store.  Thats all,   just a corner store that sells stuff... no gas station,  just slurpies, beer, cigs, bread..etc..

You really don't have a  7-11?  LOL

Curly,  google   CHARLES KRAUTHAMMERS article from yesterday about this..... It was spot on..... I read it twice, and my late night talk show guy  Pete Kalinar also read it on air.......

A must read..

Off to Hardees for a chili dog with hubby... do you guys have Hardees up north/ fly over country?   LOL

Our community organizer in chief told them last night it was fine with him to build the mosque on ground zero.... so I guess it will be build  Prarie.

Where is the sensitivity?    Would we allow Japanese to build a community center at Pearle Harbor?

Or a 7-11 at the site of Auschwitz?

The Muslims are just laughing in our faces.

Yup Tax, they have pills to help that problem too and we have

learned to be "proactive" and anticipate the no go situation. 

He has a twin brother and he was just on the phone with the same warning.  Thanks to you all once more.  What did I ever do withour cyber friends  say....  10 yrs ago??

Gee willikers,  talk about typos and mistakes.  I must be in a zone or something. 

Yes, it is good news Shoppe, but he is still pretty grouchy.  Not much fun to be here.  I think it is the pain meds that do it to him.  They are like depressents and make him real negative.  Better days ahead though.  I try to keep a positive attitude.  Now, I am positive he is grouchy!!