Being realistic is not resorting personal attacks... Reply...

.......sign that you may be losing the argument, resorting to personal attacks.....Thanks, sick-o, for the debate, it was interesting. Reply...

When was the last time you tried to rent an apartment and your landlord told you, you had to help pay for the building before you can move in. Reply...

My last attempt at this.... Think of this as the Bismarck civic center and the Wizards being the Vikings. Reply...

Well I have been waiting on this, but your unwillingness to acknowledge the facts of this situation shows your are either A) purposely ignorant B) a moron or C) both Reply...

Well I have been waiting on this, but your unwillingness to acknowledge show your are either A) purposely ignorant B) a moron or C) both Reply...

My gosh, I wish the state would build me a new house, just because I live here, I'm an asset to the community, and I pay a lot in taxes, and spend a lot to help the economy of the area.....wouldn't that be a sweet deal for everyone......what do you know, maybe I could even pay a couple hundred a month in rent so the state could really make a windfall.......this is just all rationalization to heavily subsidize an industry that has really taken it to the taxpayers nationwide for many years.......somehow this "enabling" must stop.  Ziggi has no intentions of spending 2 billion, but he may have intentions of making that much after we build him a new building for his business...... Reply...

The Vikings don't want hugely fund a stadium that they won't own... Would you?

Zygi still is planning on putting 2 billion dollars into developing down town. Which desperately needs development.

The state wants a new facility, the Vikings want a new facility, and they could be good partners like they had been in the Metrodome. However the State Gov't has said no or chose to ignore the situation.

There is a history of ten years of blocking, stalling, and ignoring stadiums. If built in the late 90's an entire new stadium with a roof would have cost under 500 million.

Also this isn't just a stadium for the Vikings, and it isn't just a stadium, it a whole redevelopment of that area. Reply...

.....sounds like much of a shell-game to me.......I guess we'll just have to disagree as to what the proper role and scope of government should be.

The Vikings want no part in even spending as much as you stated.  As I've said before, give them the same tax incentives that any other business would get, nothing more, nothing less.

 

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The state gov't doesn't want the Metrodome as it is. Retrofitting or remodeling costs more than building a new stadium, so a new one will be built.

Okay how bout this then, the state can pay for the roof, parking facilities they want, which are state wants and needs, and cuts the price tag from 900 million to under 600 million. The roof alone will cost between 250 and 300 million. The Vikings pick up the tab on the rest, and rent the stadium out to the state. Reply...

ssshhhhhhhhhh.........................but please do it without dippin' in the taxpayer's pocket, and it will not get built for all those reasons you listed.  There is only one reason it will get built, for those 10 games a year.................... Reply...

THE VIKINGS WANT AN OUTDOOR STADIUM, THE STATE WANTS THE ROOF SO IT CAN REPLACE THE METRODOME. FURTHER MORE, EVEN WITHOUT THE TWINS AND VIKINGS THERE ARE STILL 209 EVENTS THERE THIS YEAR. WITH THE NEWER BIGGER FACILITY THEY WILL ALSO HAVE THE ABILITY TO ONCE AGAIN HOST EVENTS LIKE, NCAA BASKETBALL TOURNEY'S, THE SUPERBOWL, AND LARGE CONCERTS AND OTHER EVENTS. ADDED ON TOP OF ALL THE OTHER THINGS ALREADY USING THE METRODOME

IF THATS NOT MULTI-USE THEN NOTHING IS. YOU HAVE TOO LOOK AT THE FACTS HERE THIS IS NOT A NORMAL STADIUM SITUATION.

THERE WILL BE A STADIUM BUILT REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THE VIKINGS STAY OR NOT. Reply...

Now you have gotten to the heart of it.........a new stadium, and it will NOT be a multi-use stadium, a new stadium for playing 10 games a year.  For a billion dollars, can you objectively think of anything more ridiculous?

And it will not be used 300 days a year, the Twins are outa there, these other high school sports can be played at the new baseball field, the new Gopher's stadium, Target center, and the St.Paul hockey arena.  And at any of the U of M sports facilities......most of them fairly new I believe.

And how can you say there is no extortion going on, if this was happening in the private sector, you can bet someone would be going to jail........why not a law to ban the public building of facilities for sports teams?  That would level the playing field..........

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You have to remember that the state is the main user of the Metrodome and wants to do the same thing with this stadium. The Metrodome is currently used 300 days a year; two-thirds of Metrodome usage involves less-known events such as high school and amateur baseball, high school football, trade shows, and concerts. The Vikings only use it for ten of those days.

There is no extortion here, there will be a new multi-stadium built. The question is when and if the Vikings will still be there.

The Mall Of America is now getting in on this. There is enough land owned by the Mall of America to build a stadium on. That could quite a deal for the Mall Of America.

There is no sales tax on clothes, medication, food, and some services (not sure what that is), but that needs to be looked into just as a general fund bit. Reply...

What do you think of a national law banning this extortion being committed by major league sports, holding one community hostage to another that will buckle to their extortion? Reply...

.....so get this thing going........ and this is NOT for season seats, this is to keep the Vikings here.  The team still NEEDS the revenues to operate the team......this is just to get them their stadium and keep them here.  We need to use the billion dollar figure, there should be NO government funding going to this, and by the time they get their retractable and everything they want, it will push a billion.  Get as many people rounded up as possible, that will lower your contribution and everyone's contribution for those that insist they MUST stay here.  I was being conservative, the more people you can round up that will contribute voluntarily, the better.  It is the involuntary contribution I have a problem with...... Reply...

If it meant keeping the Vikings here, I would pony up well over 30,000 for them. As long as I got lifetime seats or something...lol

Well since you wanna do math, lets remember that there is no proposal that the State would pay 1 billion dollars. The most out expensive state proposal which was given the Sports Facilities Commission, and the one earlier you brought up, is just under 500 million dollars.

The rest would be funded by the owners and the NFL.

Now take that put and we can use your 150,000 if you want and 3,333.34 a person. Now divide that by 30 years (which will be the time period it will be) and it comes out to 111.12 dollars a year. Then broken in to separate months of the year it comes out to be 9.26 a month.

But even at your Billion dollar price tag (where I don't know how or why you continue to use) it would be 222.23 a year and 18.52 a month.

However since there is no way that the group that will pay for the stadium is that small (population wise) it would be much less.

If you take the population size of(I am using the Vikigns TV market for this) Minnesota, half of Iowa, a quarter of Nebraska, all of ND and SD, you 8.55 million. Of that say 75 percent are Vikings fans, so 6.4125 million, of those say just 10% believe it is need to keep the Vikings no matter what. So that leaves you with 641,250 people (roughly the population of ND).

So to use your billion dollar tag again, it would come out to be 1,559.46 per person. Split that by thirty years and that comes out to 51.99 a year, split that by month and it comes out to 4.34 a month. Reply...

.......30-40 percent of the upper midwest?  I think that is what I am hearing from you........these are rabidly supportive people that feel we we must do whatever it takes to keep them here............Lets be conservative on the numbers and call the population 5 million, your percentages would give us say 1.5 million.  Ok, lets whittle that down some more, 10 percent of THOSE rabidly wanting them to stay at whatever cost.  150,000 people that would do whatever it took to keep them here, what EVER it took.  You know what, sick-o,for a billion dollar stadium that is a paltry $6,666  per Viking fan that demands they stay here, less that most used cars, about the price of an ATV.  Buck up, all you Vikings "nuts", if you can splurge for all  the other amenities in life, you sure could afford a paltry $6,666, and you know what, it probably would be for your lifetime.  And to keep the precious Vikings here.  It's a steal........expand that base of "investor" in your pastime, and you can really bring the cost down, but that investor should not be the taxpayer. Reply...

I swear I replied to this earlier today. I think it is high on the agenda, but specifically ask how many is a ludacris question. However a percentage is different story. I would venture to say 65 to 70% with out a new tax. A new tax would probably drop that to the 35 to 40% range.

Red McCombs and Zygi Wilf have both tried a privately funded open air stadium and have been shut down by the state in more ways than one. At this point I think the team should move. At least then maybe the team can get to the promised land. Reply...

You won't get an argument from me there, what government isn't?  And all these people out there blindly put full faith in government when they are as inefficient as it comes.  " License plate, Vikings lottery ticket, a state run casino, etc."  These ALWAYS come up when people wanting their little pet agendas come up that they want funded.  Why don't these come up, and priority over a stadium, to generate revenue for the general fund, and constitutionally mandated to reduce taxes?  I get so tired of legislators not doing the job they were elected to do, and this goes on all over, this being they HATE to vote to fund anything, just raise a tax here for a project, another tax there for another project, there should be NO dedicated taxes, they must allocate ,by vote, to fund EVERYTHING out of the general fund.

I find it ridiculous to even consider stadiums when a state is in the red 4 to 7 billion, but then again it is ridiculous anytime.......LA is building privately.....

I had asked, how many die-hard Vikings fans do you think there are in the Midwest that believe it is imperative that we must keep them here? 

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