According to the Bible, we are mortal ... not immortal per the apostacy.

Job 4:17 Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Immortality comes as a gift from God only to those who are saved.

Satan's first lie is that we are immortal.

SG,

The idea of eternal torment comes from Greek and Roman mythology. It is the idea that if you are not good, when you die, an immortal ghost will come out of you, descend to a flaming cave under the ground where you will be poked and prodded with the pitch fork of a god with horns named hades.

This beleif was absorbed by the Catholic Church to scare people into church and then scare them out of their money. They also claim that your relatives make a stop here and burn until they shake down greiving family members out of enough doe to get them to heaven.

It is all part of the great apostacy. It was not preached by the early Christian Church and was refuted by all of the major protestant reformers. Martin Luther for example called it "pure nonsense" and part of the pope's "dung heap".

According to the Bible, the dead are currently dead. Nobody has gone to heaven or hell. In the future, Jesus will return, take the saved, and raise those who are saved from the dead. 1,000 years later he will return with the saved, raise the dead that are unsaved, and throw them into a lake of fire.

The Bible makes it absolutely clear that the unsaved will burn up, will not exist, and helfire will go out. Then He will remake the Earth ... which is actually heaven.

Hell takes place on Earth, hellfire goes out, and then is replaced by heaven.

no one means no one right?

"No one can come to the father but by me"

Is a kid a someone? Is a tribe in where ever someones?

No one can come unto the father but by me.

we have an issue it appears then don't we?

Was Jesus lying or was he saying no one can come unto the father but by me EXCEPT, Children, the mentally handicap, tribes in the jungles and those who never heard my gospel.

No one means no one correct?

Sorry, but I have a much better word for democrats,  and I can't say it on this post. 

Democrats have changed alot, and not for the better.

~~Back to Hell.

Of course babies don't go to Hell,  and Tribes that never heard about Jesus, why should they go to Hell either??????

God is above all compassionate, loving and kind.

To get sent to hell means you chose to go there, that you want nothing to do with God Almmighty.

This day chose.......

there is a difference between Liberal and Libertine.

In 1860 republicans (Lincoln) were considered Liberal.

Today, the democrats could best be described as being Libertine

well I would be interested in hearing the no everlasting hell supported by scriptures. I came across that the other day and thats why I asked you to define hell because hell has many meanings. So before discarding some one who does not believe in everlasting hell I think we need to find out more before we jump to conclusions....there might be some truth to that .

Do people sit in torment for ever and ever or is that only reserved for the devil and his demons?

Lake of fire, hades, sheol, tartarus, grave, Abrahams bosom, death, the pit, and hell.......

so you see many different names and probably many different definitions.

Who goes where? when? Dead babies go to the lake of fire?, unsaved jungle tribes who never heard the gospel or the name of Jesus? where do they go.

those who are mentally ill and cannot understand the gospel, where do they go?

Jesus said no one comes to the father but by me so we have a little studying to do in this area don't ya think? At least I do.

I find it hard to believe they go to everlasting torment, do they just die and no longer exist, will they be punished for something they didn't even have a chance to accept or reject?

These questions seem elementary but what really is the truth? I think there is more to it then the typical "shoot from the hip" sugar coated "age of accountability" Christian response of which I too am guilty of using.

well shopp how many meanings are there for hell in the bible. Where and what do each mean>?

How when and to who does each different meaning apply?

Thats fine Blmmcar,  but my salvation doesn't depend on that fact.  :)

Also Blmmcar you do not believe in an everlasting hell.  I believe the Bible says more about hell than about heaven. 

There are serious problems with the secret rapture story.

1. The Bible says that Jesus will return AFTER the tribulation.

2. The Bible says that no one will be left alive after His return (except Satan and the other fallen angels).

3. The seven year tribulation does not appear anywhere in the Bible.

4. The BIble says that there will be many, not one antichrist.

5. The Bible says that antichrists already existed when the NT was written.

6. The Bible says that a beast represents a kingdom, not a man.

7. The Bible says that this beast will exist before the Roman Empire falls.

8. We must ignore the fact that a kingdom cannot rise up after the Roman Emprires fall and fulfill prophecy. It must exist today, and must have existed prior to the 6th century.

9. Secret Rapture people literally cross off the word "messiah" in Daniel 7:25 and insert the word "antichrist", and ingore the most amazing prohecy in the entire Bible.

10. According to them, Bible prophecy is the history of the Christian church even though it leaves out 2,000 years of the history of the Christian Church, the most prominent figure in the history of the Christian church other than Christ himself (the pope), and leaves out the murder of 30-120 MILLION Christians.

11. There is no mention of today's nation of Isreal anywhere in the Bible.

12. They totally misrepresent the order of events in  2 Thessalonians 2 which are clearly, plainly and indisputably laid out the order in which events will happen without any question.

13. We must ignore an entity that can be shown conclusively to fulfill the prophecies about the Beast of Revelation and antichrist.

Come on, are we supposed to just say they were wong on these points and then accept all the rest? What is there left to accept on these points?

The answer is that there is nothing. The secret rapture theory has debunked on this forum. It is not and cannot possibly be true.

Rapture or not..... I choose Jesus. 

Mt 28:20:

Lo I am with you even until the end of the age.

or

Lo I am with you but only until the seven yr tribulation begins?

or

Lo I am with you but only until  3 1/2 yrs into the tribulations?

The angels are the harvesters (at the end of the age) and they will remove the tares from the wheat (believers)

so but how can that be if the Spirit of God is taken away before the tribulation? No Spirit means no believers. Thus no need for the angels to separate the wheat (believers) from the tares (unbelievers) right?

But the bible says both will be present........ and when will this happen?

Gods Word says:" As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world."

"Lo I am with you even until the end of the age"

The restrainer, pre-trib, mid-trib, post-trib...good article. I've done some research and cannot find anything anywhere that supports the idea that the restrainer is not the Holy Spirit, the church, or the arch angel Michael.

http://www.biblicist.org/bible/restrain.shtml

Then I guess that starts with  you and me.   Its not always easy,  but we can sure sin a lot less if we try hard enough.

Pastors (and congregations) that sin are what causes most people to not want to join a church.  Or become a Christian.

I will ask something on this post that I saw on facebook today:

If you are a Christian say so, here and now..

Say it loud.

~~~~

I am a christian and Love the Lord.   vivian

neither, shopp, I am just showing everyone that I am a  person who was saved by grace and that just because I am saved doesn't mean I am perfect.

I also wanted to say that I don't make excuses, justify or compromise. If its wrong its wrong, if its sin its sin. Too many times Christians put on this fake show and behind the scenes they are worse then those who don't even serve God. Ask any PK (Preachers Kid) and they will give you an ear-full.

I just try to keep everything as real as possible. By doing that I think it is offensive to the fakers. I have been in churches where the Pastor was addicted to pain killers, instead of admitting it and seeking prayer he hid it, justified it, and made excuses for it. I've been in churches where Pastors would purposely preach warm fuzzys to a person because he tithed 1100 a month. He compromised telling the truth so as to not offend "Brother Bone"

cause if he left the church the doors would shut. Thats what the scripture means when it talks about tickling the ears. I was told  that if I didn't expose (speak out and against) some things I would have been given my own ministry in the church. So you see the church is in bad bad shape and I ain't down for it. If your doing things in the dark I am going to expose it with a flashlight. I know there are two main things that causes a Pastor to fall.....one is sex and the other is money. Those two appeal to the flesh and those are usually the ones that bring them down. I do not wish that on anyone, it causes many to lose faith and many leave the church because of it. The reason why the churches aren't packed out is because of the Christians. Its because unbelievers see the hypocrisy in it and don't want anything to do with Christianity. They see the greed, they see the fakeness, they see the compromise, they see the excuses. Until Christians start living the life instead of playing the part nothing will change.

that was just the introduction.